Janny Wurts Chat Area: Arc 3: Alliance of Light: Fugitive Prince, Grand Conspiracy; Peril's Gate & Traitor's Knot: Traitors Knot Discussions: Excerpt
   By Trys on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 03:44 pm: Edit Post

For your advance enjoyment and speculation, an excerpt from Traitor's Knot has been place on the webpage. You'll find it other the Excerpts menu.

   By Walt on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 04:21 pm: Edit Post

OMIGOSH OMIGOSH OMIGOSH!!!! Talk about an upper-right hook to the chin!!! My mind is swimming and I don't know where to begin! I think I'll wait until a few more souls have had the blessed opportunity to read "Binding" before I start my two-pence...

...must swoon now... off to find a fainting couch...

   By Daryl Bamforth on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 04:39 pm: Edit Post


You are amazing, what more can I say, I wont be able to sleep at night properly till I have Traitor's Knot in my hands

Is the releae date solid now or are they still pandering about?


   By Daryl Bamforth on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 04:49 pm: Edit Post

releae -> release


   By starstorm on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 07:32 pm: Edit Post

::picking up jaw from floor::

WOW. Talk about great things coming in small packages! Omigosh.. what a big revelation for an excerpt! :-)
Thanks for the treat, Janny!


   By George on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 08:19 pm: Edit Post


Bring it on!!!!!!! Only another 3 months!!!

This story just keeps on arcing!!! I love it!


   By Hannah on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 08:21 pm: Edit Post


I knew it! Sulvin Evend is teh sleeper hit of the series! Yay! It took me a good 45 minutes to read it, because I pored over every word.


   By Stefan Urlus on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 08:30 pm: Edit Post

AAARGGHHHHH!!!! ..... after that u want us to wait til November???!!!! how can we possibly wait to see some of that resolve??!!!!

the anguish ... and yet i love the excerpts as well

what a killer these last few months will be

   By George on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 09:50 pm: Edit Post

i have two questions for Janny!

(Now that I have had a chance to settle down after reading the excerpt...)

Janny, when the witch says that the Koriani will "not treat with the powers that shadow your prince", is this a reference to the Curse or to the Necromancers?

If it is the former i understand, if it is the latter, then i take it that the Koriani are NOT as powerful as they seem?

(I will understand if the answers to these questions will jeopardise the story line and you decline to answer. :-))


   By Susan on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 10:31 pm: Edit Post

OH Janny!!! That was cruel!! Like giving a starving man one bite of filet mignon.

Grrr! I loved it!!!

   By Kam on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 11:23 pm: Edit Post

*heart skips five beats*

I never thought I would say this... but Lysaer needs a hug. And maybe a whack across the noggin' as well. When he's conscious, that is.

I thought I could survive until November but now I'm not so sure. Must... hold.... on!


   By Hannah on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 11:34 pm: Edit Post

Like Theresa cleverly picked up on, I think we may have an idea what "Traitor's Knot" refers to!

   By Blue on Friday, August 13, 2004 - 12:34 am: Edit Post

November... Ah, Janny, you DO know which buttons to push!!

My question would be: Does Maenol know about the connection?

   By Wendy Collett on Friday, August 13, 2004 - 03:35 am: Edit Post

WOW!! WOW!!! WOW!!! and DOUBLE-WOW!!!

I come back from a week away to this MAGNIFICENT excerpt, and it's got me in a tizz!!

Oh, roll on release date!!

   By max on Friday, August 13, 2004 - 04:27 am: Edit Post

thank you Janny, that was lots of fun. I knew that Sulfin Evend would turn out to be special. But I always felt that you weren't done with Diegan and Talith yet either so I could be way off the trail there. Lysaer certainly can use an honest man in his corner [to rule Tysan, not to pursue Arithon] Happy day!

   By Hellcat on Friday, August 13, 2004 - 04:53 am: Edit Post

Don't you just love the way Janny drops you right in it from the begining.

So Lysaer is being drained, probably by the Cabal.
Sulfin is now a linchpin (boy is that going to kick off when he realises it wasn't Lysear but Assandir he owe life debt to)

Right off for a re -read!!!



   By Hunter on Friday, August 13, 2004 - 06:15 am: Edit Post

One wonders how many more blind old crones the Fellowship has stashed around Athera?

Also, would Arithon deliberately invoke the Curse to free Lysaer from this?

   By Hunter on Friday, August 13, 2004 - 06:26 am: Edit Post

Trys - the header to the excerpt says that Traitor's Knot is Book VIII and Alliance of Light book V. These numbers are for Stormed Fortress are they not?

   By Angora on Friday, August 13, 2004 - 12:44 pm: Edit Post

What a fantastic passage to whet the appetite for November! Thank you, Janny!!

Just a quick question: does Enithen Tuer have longevity training or some other way of lengthening her natural lifespan? Hmm...maybe I missed something in CotM. ::trots off to re-peruse::

   By Theresa on Friday, August 13, 2004 - 03:34 pm: Edit Post

Hannah invoked my name. That's always a dangerous thing.

To echo the overwhelming opinion--WOW WOW and WOW again. Mucho-many thanks for this marvleous preview, Janny. Definitely turns a lot on its head and makes the wait both easier and much harder!

November can't arrive fast enough.

   By skeoke on Friday, August 13, 2004 - 07:08 pm: Edit Post


Where can I find the cathdain's oath?

Is Raven the offspring that broke the 2nd lineage?

Can I possibly hope that this string is resolved in TK, or shall I hold my breath for SF?


Thanks Janny!

   By skeoke on Friday, August 13, 2004 - 10:09 pm: Edit Post

... and, what does this mean for Meanol??

   By SilverDale on Saturday, August 14, 2004 - 04:47 am: Edit Post

WOAH. The stakes, they just go higher and higher ... Oh, Enithen Tuer. Oh, Sulfin Evend. Oh God. Make it November already!

   By Katherine Socha on Saturday, August 14, 2004 - 11:29 am: Edit Post

I'm really gratefull. Thanks a lot for the exerpt, it's gonna give me a lot to think about for a while. :-)

   By Aria on Saturday, August 14, 2004 - 03:47 pm: Edit Post

Weeee!!!! How am I going to survive? Especially since I've just (finally) received Child of Prophecy, so now I have nothing but my old battered copies of WoLaS to re-read and nothing new until November!

All I can say though is the title Traitor's knot has even more meaning. Perhaps a knot of traitor's whose paths are all tangled together? Davien (accounted by many of the F7 as so) Sulfin Evend most possibly thought of one later if he goes through with the oath, the brothers s'Brydion of Lysaer and some of Lysaers' priests; what a tangled knot of traitors. :-)

Oh and Skeoke, the 2nd lineage is that of Grithen, who was the last descendent of the Erdani heirs; but established himself as unworthy through his actions towards Arithon (CotM).

Though I have to agree with you, if Sulfin is asked to swear a caithdein's oath what does that mean for Maenol?

   By Blue on Saturday, August 14, 2004 - 05:11 pm: Edit Post

Aria, I don't think it means that Maenol is in danger of being replaced by Sulfin Evend. There is still much of the office of Caithdein that we just don't understand.

From the look of it, Sulfin Evend is being asked to swear the oath so that if he does ask for the F7's help on Lysaer's behalf, that he can't just weasel out after getting the help he needs for Lysaer and turn on the F7, or anything else the F7 are sworn to uphold. Sort of like removing the knife he would otherwise try to stick in their backs.

Additionally, it might also be a way for a townie to understand, unconditionally, exactly what the Clans are going through, and perhaps work against the extermination from within the most powerful of the town factions.

Another question that has stirred up - Since Grithen was disinherited due to his unworthiness, would any child he sired be able to take over as Earl (or Countess) of Erdane, and work to overcome his disgrace? I am in the process of re-reading CotM, and Maenalle was highly peeved with him.

I am also curious as to what would be the consequences were a caithdein to betray his/her oath?

   By Wendy Collett on Saturday, August 14, 2004 - 08:35 pm: Edit Post

Blue - we know that Lysaer has been judged by the F7 as unsuitable for worthiness to officially inherit his position, but his children would be judged separately, so *presumably*, this situation should also apply for Grithen's children, if he had any.

I don't recall if it mentioned anywhere whether he survived the reiving of the clans. Also, Maneol also had his cousins executed when they went to Riverton to warn Arithon about the capture plot. Maneol also assigned a bloodline relative to be smuggled out by the s'Brydions, and I also don't recall a successor heir being appointed by the F7.

This sort of indicates that potential heirs for the caithdeinship is in low supply at present.

OK - Sulfin swears his oath.

Now just imagine what happens next - how does he get out of town, on what excuse can he get free of Lysaer's company?

Does he remain with Lysaer's forces for a time, secretly, almost becoming a mole on the inside while trying to serve both sides, without them knowing he has sworn himself to the clans?

Then what about when the CLANS find out about him changing sides!!!

Sulfin can be in no doubt of what kind of reception he would likely receive from the clans, being involved in the capture and torcher of Jieret....

   By aria on Sunday, August 15, 2004 - 05:40 pm: Edit Post

Blue, what I was more meaning was not so much Maenol's position as Caithdein, which as far as I am aware once granted to him is irrevocable; -at least to my knowledge-. But more as to what is going to happen to HIM himself.
If Sulfin Evend is being asked to take the oath, does this mean that something may be about to happen to the Caithdein himself that could result in his death?
That was more my question, not 'will he be replaced as Caithdein?'
However in someways I think you did actually answer that question as well. :D

   By Demi on Sunday, August 15, 2004 - 07:13 pm: Edit Post

You know janny, everytime you write something I am increasingly convinced of your excellence as an author. Reading this latest excerpt just adds to that impression. If only there was a way you could make the publishers release the book a few months earlier I would be even happier.

   By Blue on Sunday, August 15, 2004 - 09:09 pm: Edit Post

Sorry, Aria. I just re-read your post above, and I misinterpreted your meaning.

I wonder what would happen were those necromancers successful in drawing out Lysaer's spirit? How would this affect the Curse? Would the Curse overwhelm THEM, and cause even more problems for our green eyed boy?

   By Hannah on Sunday, August 15, 2004 - 11:30 pm: Edit Post

Woo, just finished reading the entire first (I can only assume it's the first chapter). Very dire straits for the Fellowship. ::frown:: Am growing quite annoyed that Davien persists in playing the Happy Host, instead of actually stirring himself to assist once in a while.

This was the most intriguing hidden snippet to me: …as in Halwythwood, alone, a younger girl weeps, and bitterly curses the name of the prince whose enemies destroyed her father... So Jeynsa is not best pleased with Arithon right now. It's to be expected, but if that is not resolved, it could certainly lead to trouble for himself, given the promises made to Jieret in PG re: his daughter.

Where has Kharadmon again? And Traithe?

   By Izzy on Monday, August 16, 2004 - 03:34 am: Edit Post

I don't know if anyone has mentioned it here (apart from Hannah referring to the content), but it seems that Meisha Merlin have a much more extended excerpt (or set of excerpt's) up on their site...

Meisha Merlin TK Page

Click on the Excerpt link on the right hand side menu.



   By max on Monday, August 16, 2004 - 09:57 am: Edit Post

It was a great excerpt.!!. [and all I can think of is, 'I sure would love to be LYSAER'S nurse] LOLOLOLOL!!!

   By Janny Wurts on Monday, August 16, 2004 - 12:39 pm: Edit Post

Ah -- The gryphon and I gave you the first subchapter, taken out of the first chapter set - food for the informed reader, indeed, but could be accessed by new readers as well.

Meisha Merlin's generosity has provided chapter set I, complete, in their excerpt....go on and have fun...!

CH 1 sets the stage....if the left hook in the first subchapter left you reeling, I promise, it's only the first of many....there is very VERY little of this book that doesn't majorly spoil...and truthfully, all of that is already in preview.

The ENTIRE REST OF THE BOOK is utterly volatile stuff.

Trust me, I am as excited for you, with the roller coaster ride yet ahead of you. Thanks for the wonderous response - just wait, now, just you wait...

George - YOU ASKED - my intent on the page was, the necromancers, but in fact, the reference could apply both ways though the primary reason would differ.

   By Artemis on Monday, August 16, 2004 - 01:43 pm: Edit Post

I read it. good, intit? ta, chuck.


   By skeoke on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 04:34 pm: Edit Post

So, had Dakar's debauchery always been a ruse to throw of the witches?

At first, I thought "No, he's only known Arithon for 50 odd years." But then I realized that without the Waystone, Asandir would be of prime interest for the witches scrying. So, maybe.

Gonna have to read the series again with Dakar's bad boy antics a shield and screen for whatever Asandir and Arithon are up to.


How then do we explain the episode in Havish that got Dakar assigned to Arithon in the first place? Or, how do we explain his careless ways while accompanying Medlir, the simple bard??


Never straight forward, never easy.

No wonder we love these books!

Thanks, Janny! :D

(I'm still gonna reread again, though.)

((And, yes, I can say that. I've read them, and reread them, and I will reread them again and again. Just be glad I don't list all the agains. {My husband is an English spoilsport. But in my never humble opinion, proper grammer doesn't always convey the correct meaning.}))

   By Jay_Jay on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 09:45 am: Edit Post

IIRC, one of the reasons for Dakar's debauchery was to stop his prophetic gift from kicking in. Since the gift also left him feeling hung over, it wasn't much of choice!

   By Auna on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 02:06 pm: Edit Post

Dakar is in control of getting drunk vs visions which happen to him seemingly at random. Also, visions show very horrible, frightening things. It's no wonder he drinks to suppress them.

I'm gratified to see all the subtle buildup of Sulfin come to fruition. Deep down, I always knew he'd have to make that choice. I really feel for him because that's going to be agonizing. I have a feeling this will be my favorite book of the series when it releases. Thanks for the preview :-)

   By Blue on Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 03:12 am: Edit Post

What I like is that Luhaine, of ALL of the F7, [ Mr. Prim and Proper himself!] is suggesting that he get drunk and tomcat around!

What is even more interesting, is that Dakar's unsavory habits will probably be more effective in shielding his intent from the Koriani than any ward or spell of misdirection in his personal arsenal.

I can't wait to see the mayhem he is going to cause with that! :D

   By Cheryl on Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 06:54 am: Edit Post

That's how I feel about Dakar Auna. I sympathize with him and would be under the table all the time if I had that to deal with. I just hope Arithon and Dakar reuinite right away in Traitor's Knot. I like them together more then apart. But I think Janny wants Arithon alone or with someone new.

   By Auna on Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 05:48 pm: Edit Post

I think he could also drink because he feels worthless a lot of the time when he's sober since he hasn't mastered simple spells yet.

That was funny Blue... I rather enjoyed that!

The separation allows Dakar to experience growth in himself as he has to take care of someone more helpless and intractable than he is, so I actually don't mind them being apart. And I can't wait to hear the talks between Davien and Arithon!

   By George on Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 06:29 pm: Edit Post

I have a sneaking suspicion that Dakar has grown somewhat since his enjoining with Kharadmon...I predict that we will probably see a new Dakar (or at least a Dakar of some growth), much like towards the end of the Warhost at Vastmark (when he takes an arrow for Arithon)...

I was always under the notion that Dakar had not learnt how to summon one of the F7 by simple cantrip. This is because (in the previous novels) Dakar repeatedly uses the blood spell and fire technique of summoning Sethvir's awareness. In the excerpt Dakar summons Luhaine directly. I know it is only something small but seems worthy of notice....


   By Cheryl on Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 08:24 pm: Edit Post

I think Dakar and Arithon have been apart enough hope they get together again soon. I love their bantering. It's good Dakar has sometime alone but I think he needs Arithon as much as Arithon needs him. I'm looking forward to Arithon and Davien's time together too.

   By Hellcat on Saturday, August 21, 2004 - 02:56 am: Edit Post

What exactly does the Cathdien's oath state? I thought it was in the books somewhere but I can't find it. I presume its an oath to defend the Land of Tysan and to help the Fellowship appointed King rule and to uphold the compact.

Since there is not a a King of Tysan this wouldn't cause a conflict (yet)for Sulfin Evend, I'm not sure how upholding the compact would effect his status (maybe those claborn sold into slavery could appeal to him.) An oath to protect the land might get interesting though, we know that farmesr have encroched on the free wilds, woudl Sulfin become responsible for returnin the free wilds to their free state.

I can't see Sulfin repalcing Meanol as Cathdien for Tysan. He was asked to swear the oath, to take on a Cathdien's responsiblities not to usurp Meanol.


   By max on Saturday, August 21, 2004 - 04:47 am: Edit Post

But don't you think Sulfin Evend is in a much better position to ease Lysaer into upkeeping the paravian compact, and to prevent the inner cabal from using Lysaer to totally circumvent the compact? Even if Maenol wanted to be the shadow behind Lysaer's throne, I don't think it could happen. Besides Maenol is young enough to become cathdein to one of Lysaers descendants. And possibly Lysaer may need two cathdeins eventually, a liason to the clans and a liason to the townspeople. just thinking out loud.

   By Joy on Saturday, August 21, 2004 - 11:30 am: Edit Post

Thanks so much, Janny!

I've been hibernating - trying to go 'cold turkey' between books to see if it helps make the wait any easier. It hasn't really - hence my checking in with the Chat room a few months early - and boy am I grateful I caved in to the impulse!! I'm still going to try to hold off another month before I dive back into the land of WoLaS - it's almost too absorbing :-).

Congrats in advance on what promises to be yet another wonderful read..


   By Neil on Monday, August 23, 2004 - 05:44 am: Edit Post

Following the latest TK preview I reread the Erdane scene in COTM.

Elaira was the first "Koriani" with or without "permission"(?) to enter Erdane for 400 years. Curious.

So is it the necromancers who are "behind" Lord Koshlin? I get the feeling that Lysaer's cabal (Priests etc.) are a different faction...

November is not far away thankfully ;-)

   By Blue on Monday, August 23, 2004 - 03:29 pm: Edit Post

November is not far away

But it is still TOO far away!

Ah, well, another all nighter to look forward to come November!

   By George on Monday, August 23, 2004 - 06:38 pm: Edit Post


You just added ANOTHER point on the list of growing arcs....

now you have fuelled my curiosity!

Can't it be November yet? :-(

   By max on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 04:27 am: Edit Post

there is a physical resemblance between Arithon, Mearn s'Brydion, and Sulfin Evend. All 3 are described as being small men or at least only average in height, whiplash thin and quick, intense personalities, dark haired and pale eyed, Arithon with green, Mearn with grey, and Sulfin Evend with grey-blue. Is there a connection between these 3 that is more obvious to all of you? Subtlties have to hit me straight between the eyes before I get it. Do any of you see a similarity? [smiling at ya]

   By Annette on Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 06:45 pm: Edit Post

If so, Max, the connection would have to be way in the past, since Arithon's immediate family have all been on a different world for the past 500 years. So I don't know as that would be a big thing would it? And to put my two cents in - I would love to see Dakar and Arithon together again. I love the interaction between the two. Anyway back to lurking. Have a great one everyone.

   By Neil on Thursday, October 14, 2004 - 02:24 am: Edit Post

question from the except on MM site: why don't the galleymen and the "blue-water" sailors get on?

And if the mutual dislike is "ages old" was it not on hiatus for 500 years? How was there "blue water sailing" without the stars to navigate?

...assuming blue water sailing means crossing larges stretches of water larger than Eltair bay (but maybe this is what Janny means as opposed to hugging the coastline?) If there is blue-water sailing to be done where do they go?

Or is it just a townborn/clan thing in a different form?

   By Andrew Ginever on Thursday, October 14, 2004 - 01:51 pm: Edit Post


If you re-read the passage in Grand Conspiracy where Feylind encounters Elaira in Morvain, some of your questions may be answered.

The animosity seems to go at least one way (blue water to galleymen):

Feylind's ship's boy has a slashed hand after a knife fight. She makes a comment something to the effect that he won't get left behind when the Evenstar sails. The boy is grateful because Morvain is a galleyman's port and he doesn't want to be pressed into service at oar, or forced to deliver water to the rowers.

This seems reinforced in Warhost when Dakar thinks he prefers travel on the brigantine to Lysaer's galley (gusts of sea air untainted by the sweat of the rowers).

As to reasons why the animosity might go the other way, I'm sure Lysaer's galleymen are not happy with Arithon's blue water hulls outfoxing them in Fugitive Prince, or being able to pass by Havish completely in one trip. (Then there's the usual financial reasons for carrying cargo: if you can get there faster, get the best prices, etc.)

   By Memory on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 08:11 am: Edit Post

Just found the Excerpt... I always did like Sulfin :-)


   By Neil on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 12:38 pm: Edit Post

Thanks Andrew - I'll look when I can.

It was the "ages old" reference...the third age seems to have seen very few changes with respect to humans...surely humanity would have adjusted a little better to Athera in 5000 years? I know I'm picking at details rather than seeing the big picture maybe...

I did remember that Feylind says "the future is in sail" or something like that to her mother. If it's the future why hasn't it wiped out rowing during 5000 years? Or is it just during 500 years that galleys have been necessary? Did humans sail during the past? I'm confused.

I wonder if there is marked difference financially why the galleymen haven't been forced out of business ;-) I saw retrospectively that the differences spring from rivalry. Naturally...after my message was posted...

My point, I guess, was that "blue water" for me implied "further afield" and I wondered "how" / "where" since the mistwraith seemed to have put a stop to star navigation.

Arithon's short-term wins at sea don't make a difference, I feel, to the "age-old feelings". For the moment anyway. From the excerpt there are comments (Havish scene in TK) that the smugglers (by necessity) are better sailors. The galleys would normally be more "legal" perhaps...

   By Timothy on Thursday, October 21, 2004 - 04:33 am: Edit Post

I was thinking about the excerpt, and if the S'Gannley was the Fellowship's first choice for kingship, what geas do you think they would have had? Would it have been Justice as well? It seems a little weird to me to have a caithdein who's emphasis will tend toward justice assist a king who's geas is justice as well.

Now, I wonder if Elaira has caithdein blood in her too...

   By George on Thursday, October 21, 2004 - 07:22 pm: Edit Post

I think Janny has said on this board somewhere, that whilst Elaira has clan blood it is not titled or caithdein at all.. (from memory..)

   By ARend on Tuesday, October 26, 2004 - 12:56 am: Edit Post

I didn't have a chance to read the preview until tonight. Thankfully it's just a few more weeks till TK comes out, otherwise I'd go crazy with waiting ^_^ One chapter and just so much there...

A bit unsettling to see Luhaine loosing his "cool" like that...

   By Neil on Thursday, November 25, 2004 - 03:29 am: Edit Post

just a little snippet to add...refering to necromancy.

I reread the first 3 pages of Warhost of Vastmark...and there right in front of my eyes was a reference to Luhaine in Scarpdale dealing with some ghosts drawn across the veil by a necromancer.

I completely missed this the first time (it had no likely impact on the story at that time..the urgent problem on the page was free wraiths were on the way to Athera with Kharadmon). So how many other references have I 'glossed over'?

The only other mention is the "stick" Sethvir frees in GC in the hospice.

Are there any more I wonder? And how big a "problem" is this faction to our "heros"?

   By Janny Wurts on Thursday, November 25, 2004 - 02:01 pm: Edit Post

Starting with Curse of the Mistwraith? (wry and very devious grin)

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