Prince Kevor's reincarnation?

Janny Wurts Chat Area: Arc 3: Alliance of Light: Fugitive Prince, Grand Conspiracy; Peril's Gate & Traitor's Knot: Prince Kevor's reincarnation?
   By Gillian Bonnell on Monday, June 25, 2012 - 05:24 am: Edit Post

His unearthly beauty is mentioned in Peril's Gate but nothing after that. What rôle will he play in the future? Can he marry? Have children?
Any suggestions?


   By Janny Wurts on Wednesday, June 27, 2012 - 05:15 pm: Edit Post

(welcome here, Gillian)

Is everyone on vacation???


   By Annette on Wednesday, June 27, 2012 - 09:56 pm: Edit Post

My understanding is Ath's adepts neither marry nor have children, so unearthly about describes them. Since it seems Kevor could have a very long life, we might see him again, but I would think any effect he has on the future is more to do with Ath's Mysteries, and keeping things in balance.

I think you should ask Janny, since she was the first to reply, you should ask the source of all Atheran wisdom. Call her by name, she is bound to answer.


   By Julie on Monday, August 06, 2012 - 10:14 am: Edit Post

Maybe he will have a part to play in his father's redemption after all. Lysander may have a deep seeded distrust of magecraft, but he has displayed awe at the true mysteries.


   By Annette on Tuesday, August 07, 2012 - 04:05 am: Edit Post

The adepts are not likely to be offering to redeem Lysaer again, considering the affect his cursed nature has on the mysteries. And Lysaer already refused Kevor's offer, no further offer of redemption is likely to be coming from that direction, or from the Paravians. Ath's adepts are likely to be struggling just to survive before we get to the end of Destiny's Conflict. They will not be able to afford sacrificing anything else to try to redeem Lysaer. Someone else will claim the task.

If Lysaer betrayed his s'Illesid heritage, Tysans last true Prince maybe redeemed the family name.


   By Annette on Tuesday, August 07, 2012 - 04:12 am: Edit Post

Sorry for the spelling was in a rush, that was s'Ilessid heritage.


   By Gillian Bonnell on Tuesday, August 07, 2012 - 05:52 am: Edit Post

Unfortunately it sounds as though it could be yet one more task for Arithon - redeem your brother! Surely he has enough on his plate. (Having just finished rereading Initiate's Trial I am feeling bereft) Perhaps the Mad Prophet and Dav??? - Sulfin Evend's descendant will be Lysaer's saviours.


   By Julie on Wednesday, August 08, 2012 - 10:54 am: Edit Post

Janny does not confer longevity on her characters without a reason. I do not agree that assistance from Ath's adepts is out of the question if Lysaer makes overtures in free will. While they are not immunue to personal feelings, their creed includes a non judgemental approach. Lysaer has made huge strides in controlling the curse, I would hope when he finally stands in Paravian presence, he will be able to ask for redemption and freedom from the curse as Arithon did.


   By Annette on Wednesday, August 08, 2012 - 07:53 pm: Edit Post

Spoilers, spoilers, spoilers, spoilers,


Lysaer would never be able to stand in Paravian presence and ask for help, he has no way to call a Paravian, he is no initiate master, no masterbard and is never going to gain sanction as an Atheran Prince from the Fellowship, he is an outcast. He ever attempted to do what Arithon did while still cursed he would destroy the mysteries, and there would be no more Paravians. That would seem to be what the curse has doomed him to anyway, but there would be a way later on to avoid that end. Even though Lysaer is making advances on controlling the effects of the curse, he is still blind, the curse still poisons how he thinks. He is not going to be asking any of Ath's Adepts for help, he never did in the first place, they offered, they learned their mistake. Lysaer is too wilful and the curse is too strong. The curse is not getting any weaker, Ath's Adepts are not getting any stronger.

Lysaer still thinks Arithon is evil and will not see the truth till it is too late. We already know he is going to execute Arithon, whether he wants to at that point or not, his fanatics will leave him no choice. Ath's Adepts are empowered by the mysteries, the mysteries fail they can help no one. When Lysaer eventually pleads for help there is not going to be a big supply of it on offer. He is either going to have to start praying to Ath for a miracle, or he is going to have to find it in himself. So far he has shown no ability to turn Fate's Wheel backwards, but you never know, maybe desperation will awaken something. Or maybe like with Jieret and Tarens, Arithon will provide a way for Lysaer to help. Lysaer cannot kill him if he is already dead, there would be a reason why Arithon's spirit has been spending so much time off on its own. Maybe by that point he can last long enough as a free spirit to help Lysaer.

Ath's adepts are there to shine as an example and be creative, not offer themselves as sacrifices to save humanity. It was explained long ago that Athera needs them. With Lysaer and his false religion killing talent off, Athera needs all the help she can get. Even at the start of the series, hostels had been lost, Janny never showed us in Initiate's Trial, but Ath's Adepts would have even less hostels several centuries later after Lysaer had turned so many against them.


   By Gillian Bonnell on Thursday, August 09, 2012 - 01:59 am: Edit Post

Hi Annette
You say "We already know [Lysaer]is going to execute Arithon" I must have missed that. Tell me it is not true Annette or Jenny! Where did you glean that information? Which book?

Gill


   By Annette on Thursday, August 09, 2012 - 05:33 am: Edit Post

Spoilers, spoilers, spoilers, spoilers.

This is probably better discussed in a later section. It is nothing new, Janny left it out in plain sight, and the set up for it you could say started in the first book.

Jieret first saw it, Dakar was too chicken to see it, if you pay attention to some things, you can work out Arithon himself knows more about it by the end of the third arc. Ath's Adept also confirmed the worst when Lysaer was outcast from the compact. Most of it happened in Fugitive Prince, but there were sneaky set ups done for what is going to happen in earlier and later books. They will be more obvious after reading Destiny's Conflict and then re-reading the earlier books. Arithon knows what is going to happen, although that would have been forgotten by the start of the fourth arc. Now since Davien said Arithon can get his hearts desire going down this path, something else is going on, and Arithon is not likely to be gone permanently. There were even more hints about a future in Initiate's Trial. But no matter what Arithon or anyone else does to save the day, Lysaer is going to be left, freed of the curse, smack square in the middle of his worse nightmare. And Janny has left no hints I could find as to what he is going to do, although they could be there. The Fellowship, Ath's Adepts and the Paravains are not going to be helping him, and a certain dragon seems more likely to want to make an ash pile out of him. Arithon will not be there to help. The Biedar Eldest said not only could Lysaer be forgiven for past mistakes, but perhaps for future ones, the iffy bit seemed to be dependent on Arithon. The Biedar have shown no inclination to offer direct assistance to Lysaer, for all that their knife was in Erdane when he needed it for protection. From what the adept said, Lysaer can do something other than cry all over the place feeling sorry for himself. And Lysaer has been having those nightmares for ages, so maybe all along he has had something in mind and Janny is just going to spring a surprise on us. But Janny usually gives us warning, so maybe we get it all in the next book.

Either way it seems possible both brothers can survive the Mistwraith getting its revenge, although Lysaer might not want to after all he has been through. We always suspected the series was going to have an uplifting end anyway. Janny has never left us hanging in suspense yet, unless you count giving us that prophecy so early and then making us wait all this time to see how Arithon manages to overcome that slight problem. Destiny's Conflict would seem the book where we finally find out.

There were hints about how it might be done, nothing concrete, Janny is obviously going to keep us guessing.


   By Julie on Thursday, August 09, 2012 - 01:25 pm: Edit Post

Annette:

I am not so sure that the Adept's words to Lysaer when he was cast out from the compact should be taken literally. Otherwise why should anyone do anything to try and prevent the "predestined" chaos and slaughter. I think it was more of a metphor, a warning- this is what it will take - a world in ruin- before Arithon will throw himself onto Lysaer's blade.

Being cast out from the compact means that the Fellowship cannot intercede with the Paravians, Not, that Lysaer will never be able to plead his case with them. My take from Initiate's Trial was that Lysaer's sense of justice is a positive force, he wants nothing to do with being the Avatar. Now why he never tried to do away with the True Light sect (even on a battle ground) may be revealed in later books. Remember he went to Havish to STOP an unjust war. He does not have the strength to combat the curse especially when set upon by the Koriani. He certainly accepted Dakar back into his company, did not blink an eye to have Traithe in Etarra, and understands the arcane Law behind Daliana's Cathdein role.
If Ath's mysteries are sourced in love, then forgiveness is very real, the Paravians, Ath's Adepts, and the Fellowship would accept Lysaer's pleas for redemption. The Beider on the other hand are not concerned with the other humans on Athera- they are only there to see the downfall of the Koriani order.


   By Annette on Thursday, August 09, 2012 - 08:03 pm: Edit Post

I think Julie, you are mistaking the Biedar for some other group, they never said they sought anyone's downfall. And what we have seen of them so far shows they do take an active part in shaping Athera's destiny. Unlike Ath's Adepts who do not.

Ath's Adepts do not seek to intimidate or deceive with lies either. I believe you are going to be in for a bit of a shock.


   By Trys on Friday, August 10, 2012 - 05:14 am: Edit Post

I believe the Biedar want back what was 'stolen' from them. :-)


   By Sleo on Friday, August 10, 2012 - 07:23 am: Edit Post

And they gave Elaira the knife to at least frighten Morriel Prime.

Also, the sorcerers have helped Lysaer - they gave him Daliana.


   By Julie on Friday, August 10, 2012 - 10:48 am: Edit Post

Warnings do not neccessarily serve to intimidate- rather to allow someone to make informed choices. If you were told taking a certain medication may cause problematic side effects- you would be able to decide if the risk out weighed the benefit or visa versa.
Also I did not mean to say the Beidar have no interest in what happens to the world or that they do not involve themselves, rather their interest is as Trys says- take back what was stolen and then twisted by the Koriathan.I cannot remember which book, nor have the time to search but the eldest does say Beidar would not be on Athera if not for the fact this is where the Koriani order settled along with the remnants of humanity. They serve Mother Dark- I assume a manifestation of Ath. THe knife the Eldest gave to Elaira is the same one used by Enithen Tuer (sp?) then given to Sulfen Evend. Its arcane defense is against necromancy. I assume Arithon will wield it to free Selidie from Morriel, without anyone in succession able to control the Waystone, the order cannot continue as it has done for millenia. All that information and knowledge will be effectively lost.


   By Gillian Bonnell on Friday, August 10, 2012 - 10:56 am: Edit Post

The Beidar were allowed to settle on Athera by the Paravians not needing the sorcerers to intercede on their behalf. Was that prior to the Koriana arrival?

Gill


   By Annette on Friday, August 10, 2012 - 01:11 pm: Edit Post


quote:

The Beidar were allowed to settle on Athera by the Paravians not needing the sorcerers to intercede on their behalf. Was that prior to the Koriana arrival?

Gill




Yes it was just before the rest of humanity arrived. The Koriani came with the main group of human refugees. They have no power to travel between the stars without a ship.


It is possible the Biedar are not the only group of advanced/mystical humans who settled on Athera. If the Biedar followed to see their stolen heritage found its way into the right hands, the group those focus stones and some of the other powerful mineral tools the Koriani likely stole might have also found their way to Athera. There is one isolated human settlement we have yet to see in the books. Ettinmere Settlement. Janny mentioned they were another group with their own dialect. We have yet to see any sign they involve themselves in anything. Although there were the gem cutters of Mearth, who cut the crown jewels which are also focus stones, we were told they were Paravians. But why was it only those Paravians knew the secret to the art?


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