And what about the Waystone..... & the Koriani?

Janny Wurts Chat Area: Arc 3: Alliance of Light: Stormed Fortress: And what about the Waystone..... & the Koriani?
   By Róisín on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 09:44 am: Edit Post

Just had to ask this. What do people think will happen here?

TK Spoiler!!!!!
We were all horrified (ok, I was) by what Morriel pulled on Elaria and Arithon. The conversation about that has died down. I know Arithon has the power to do some damage, but I think Elaira is at some point going to reject her vows of obedience after that atrocity. This is HER 'geas', she's got to deal with it.

She was touched by a Paravian, and I wonder if Koriani try to strip her mind, will that Paravian's heart touch somehow trigger the dissolution of her obedience vow? It must at least do SOMETHING to the Waystone, and possibly, Morriel/Seldie. After all, the same 'grace' freed Arithon from the (... wossname... evil bloodsuckers... nasty priests...) and he was able to reclaim himself.

I'm suddenly rife with speculation and being prolific :-) I'm probably totally wrong. Have no fear, the fit will pass. And once again, the wait. :-)


   By Auna on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 02:15 pm: Edit Post

It's funny but while Seledie is worried about Arithon, I think it's Elaira she should really be concerned about. And woe to her if she tries to use a stone on Elaira! I'm betting Elaira takes her on, not Arithon, but with Janny's twists, who knows ;)


   By Raj on Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 02:03 pm: Edit Post

Nah....Dakar will do it.


   By Bec on Sunday, April 23, 2006 - 08:28 am: Edit Post

I have to agree with Auna. I would love to see Elaira take on Seldie. It feels to me like this should be her "task". She has the trust of her own personal crystal and understands (to a certain degree) the sentience in the stones. I would like to think that instead of having to force the waystone to do her will she can convince it to work in harmony (much as Sethvir has done) - of cause the current state of the Waystone is going to make this mighty tricky!!

I would love to know Elaira's parentage and as the Koriani keep a record of the births I am sure it would be possible. I tend to speculate that Elaira will lead the Koriani to be a force of Good for humanity and use the knowledge stored in the Waystone to help humanity understand the mistakes it had made previously and help it to prevent the same thing happening again. Of course this may keep Arithon and Elaria apart but they have a "long-distance" relationship most of the time anyway!! It's probably what has to happen when your busy saving the world!! :-)

Of course Arithon and Elaria could just help Lirenda redeem herself and become the force that helps the Koriani change. :-)


   By Raj on Sunday, April 23, 2006 - 11:35 am: Edit Post

SPOILER!!




Isn't there an Iyat trapped in the Waystone now?Given Arithon's new found power over the fiends.... Elaira/Lirenda might need his help...just a thought.
It might be a wee bit difficult to bring the stone to harmony with the unwanted guest.


   By Trys on Sunday, April 23, 2006 - 12:47 pm: Edit Post

And what about all of the potential Primes who failed the final test and got trapped in the crystal?


   By Hunter on Sunday, April 23, 2006 - 07:26 pm: Edit Post

Is there an implied assumption that the Great Waystone was in harmony prior to Arithon sending the iyat into the stone? From what I can tell, the Waystone hasn't been in harmony since it's arrival on Athera, or most likely before that given the Koriathain's dislike for recognizing awareness in inanimate objects.


   By Bec on Sunday, April 23, 2006 - 09:57 pm: Edit Post

I don't think it has ever been implied that the waystone was in harmony. I think in one of the books it describes it as malevolent. I think it needs a jolly good clean out - BUT then it would loose all the stored knowledge. I think it was implied that it didn't like the way it was being used - which means that PERHAPS(!!) it would be possible to come to some arrangement that is workable for both the stone and the user - without the need to force it to do the user's will. We have seen that Sethvir can communicate (and Ath's adepts - I think can too) with the crystals. Elaira has a lot better understanding of the nature of crystals than she had before and probably more than most of the Koriani - and also quite a bit of life left to figure it out!! (provided Janny doesn't kill her off). One wonders why Sethvir stored the crystal without trying to help it (maybe better term could be used) - perhaps that is because it is not from Athera, or that the F7 see the need for its knowledge later on down the track (I'm grasping at straws now - ROTFL). The Iyat makes life very interesting though!!


   By Hunter on Sunday, April 23, 2006 - 11:44 pm: Edit Post

Sethvir didn't interfere with the Great Waystone specifically because it wasn't his and wasn't of Athera so didn't fall under the Compact.

Which also makes an interesting question - if the Waystone is sentient, could it not have asked Sethvir to be cleansed/helped/released? It was in Althain Tower for five centuries so I think it could have asked if it wanted.

Although given the actions of Elaira's personal stone when it preferred to stay rather than be cleared, it would be interesting to see if the stones themselves have some ulterior motive even outside of the Koriani? After all, being of off-world origin, the stones maintain knowledge of mankind's worlds prior to the great weapon destroying them. And is hence an invaluable and irreplacable legacy of mankind's history.


   By Trys on Monday, April 24, 2006 - 04:10 am: Edit Post

I don't think it was said that the stone itself is malevolent but rather the forces inside, the ones that Morriel must deal with when she wants to use the stone, are malevolent and these forces are the failed Prime candidates. Yes?


   By RapierIan on Monday, April 24, 2006 - 08:04 am: Edit Post

"Here at Lacuna Inc. we have invented a technique that allows the erasure of hurtful memories."

Just because knowledge and memory is painful doesn't mean you always want it to go away. Perhaps thats the reason the crystals don't want to be purged.


   By Hunter on Monday, April 24, 2006 - 10:45 am: Edit Post

It's a great question Trys - oh great webmaster..

I hadn't thought long and hard whether the problems with the Great Waystone are 100% because of the failed Primes, or whether the Great Waystone itself is rather cranky.

Is the Great Waystone very much like Selidie now - the Waystone is hosting the multitude of failed Primes with the sentience of the Great Waystone entrapped in it's own physical housing, the same as Selidie's body is hosting Morriel with Selidie buried and subjugated in her own body somewhere?

And, in that case, wouldn't the multitude of failed Primes in the Waystone resemble in many ways the Mistwraith? In which case, might it not be possible to capture/hold the Mistwraith in a crystal of sufficient power?


   By Timothy on Monday, April 24, 2006 - 08:07 pm: Edit Post

Now that an iyat is inside the Waystone... and has changed it substantially, will that make it partially of the Compact now?


   By Iris on Monday, April 24, 2006 - 08:35 pm: Edit Post

What a fascinating chain of thought! Thanks for starting it all Roisin. I have long been intrigued by the iyat in the stone...specially since they feed on energy that is irritated or anxious...what might happen to a small spirit inside a crystal that has been overwhelmed by frustrated energies! Yikes. This is going to be good whatever it is!

Iris


   By Róisín on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 09:11 am: Edit Post

Intriguing...


quote:

In which case, might it not be possible to capture/hold the Mistwraith in a crystal of sufficient power?




Doesn't Rockfell count as a pretty big bit of rock? :-)

One difference I can see, is that the Mistwraithe is surrounded by Rockfell, and not laced through it. It's also contained in a crystal jar (made from Kielring tower?) of sorts. But the comparison between the nature of the 'Primewraithes' :-) and the Mistwraithe is interesting.

The Waystone might have agreed on some level to be a part of the Koriani order; the Koriani don't really ask permission, they think it's just an inanimate mineral. They access its power by forcing it to submit. The Waystone is a victim of sorts, of abuse.

An allegory: if I had a thousand wailing voices in my head, of people who tried to force me to do things, no matter how angelic my basic character, I would definitely be psychotic and horribly bad-tempered! After being beaten down so much, all I'd know is how to do the same back?

Trys - I keep remembering what Sethvir & Asandir said about Elaira - that she's the only one with a chance of working with the Waystone, and surviving. She certainly could handle Arithon's earlier tetchiness. She'd probably delve into the Waystone, see the 'moil' of trapped forces coming at her, raise and eyebrow, grin and say "So... this is meant to scare me? How impressive."

Timothy - as far as I understand it, the iyat is a bit of drakespawn, which caused the compact. It's not a part of the compact. The Paravians and F7 were meant to have contained or cleansed Athera of all remaining loose drakespawn.


   By michael hammer on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 08:28 am: Edit Post

wasn't it said somewhere that iyats are not able to develop because they have no inherent memory? i wonder perhaps if the iyat in the waystone will now have a memory of sort because it can access the stored knowledge. so between the two act with one purpose of their own accord.


   By skeoke on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 05:44 pm: Edit Post

Now THAT is truly scary.

I like it!


   By Izzy on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 11:05 pm: Edit Post

This is one thing that has always somewhat confused me...


quote:

The Waystone might have agreed on some level to be a part of the Koriani order; the Koriani don't really ask permission, they think it's just an inanimate mineral. They access its power by forcing it to submit.




The Koriani do not credit stones with "sentience" as it were, yet they must fight with "something" when they take control of these rocks. So what do they think they are subjugating?

Here's another thought... with the iyat being in the Waystone, and the iyat being "of Athera" would that possibly give the F7 an "in" on direct intervention with the Waystone? ie/ The F7 could destroy the Waystone if the iyat "asked" to be freed, and perhaps the iyat might learn the ability to ask by being in the Waystone :-) After all, iyat's feed on power, and there is A LOT of power in the Waystone :-)

Regards,

CJ


   By Richard on Friday, April 28, 2006 - 06:18 am: Edit Post

I've always seen the Waystone as a focus rather than a power in it's own right.

In which case the iyat could gain a memory via the waystone ... but no real power unless it is provided by an outside source.

Now what might be interesting is if the iyat become sentient ... but as a new sentient, obviously little more than a child with it's inherent tendancies.

People are not all bad or all good ... which implies that there is some good within the waystone also.

Now if that child should then get access to power via someone accessing the waystone ....


   By Wendy Collett on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 04:21 am: Edit Post

This is a good line of thought.

On a re-read of the chapters concerned, Arithon 'imprints' the instructions or memory of the task to be done where the iyats rethread the ship rigging on the Evenstar. They mostly behave and do as asked and then flit away as their instructions end, and there is no more power for them to absorb.

Other passage indicate that the drakes didn't 'finish' them to sentient level, but it implies they could become so.

Now an iyat is inside a flawed Waystone - because of the new crazes inside a previously known perfect stone, this means that to use the stone, the imperfections will need to be remapped.

The iyat won't be parted from the store of power in the Waystone, and it will be more powerful because of it, than could probably be controlled by Selidie and or the Skyron + other crystals.

In the meantime, just because the iyat is trapped inside the stone doesn't mean that it isn't still being imprinted all the time - by the failed primes and candidates, as well as the history records of other events the Waystone did such as the curbing of floods and famine etc. Not to mention the secret about Selidie's possession.

Now - if an iyat could talk, or write, what would it say?

If an iyat learned how to possess somebody (from Morriel's example imprint), with a full prime's knowledge, what would it do?

Become a prime in it's own right, with an established continual link to the Waystone for power?


   By motley on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 05:18 am: Edit Post

In Warhost of Vastmark, Morriel uses the Waystone for an augury.

In it she sees Arithon strapped to a table, but also, she sees that certainly, the Waystone will be her undoing.

Now I'm not sure if what she saw was her own choice to possess Seldie, using the Waystone (or did she use the Skyron for that...?) or the Waystone itself attacking her.

What do others have to say: has that vision of her own ending come to pass? Or is it still coming?

The Waystone, having spent time with the F7, with Sethvir, and having been tuned to Athera: has it become less willing to be used as a tool in Koriani meddling, will it understand the reason why the Tier S'Falenn should also be protected?


   By George on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 09:31 pm: Edit Post

we know from Arithon's time in Kewar's tunnel, that he came to the realisation that everything he did (including all auguries!) were coloured by the curse...it seems like the mistwraith curse is sentient and part of his character...could the waystone be "fudging" the future and mapping out a plan of action to free itself from bondage????

what are your thoughts?
G


   By motley on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 02:43 am: Edit Post

Wow.. that's a great idea.

*ponder*


   By Blue on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 06:43 pm: Edit Post

Well, we saw Morriel's crystal play some serious mind games with her in FP, namely when she had the flashback to her childhood, remembering her little brothers. Then, even though she took hold of her crystal to bring herself out of it, she nearly couldn't. It even took her a bit to remember the senior who addressed her.

If a personal crystal can do that, what could a much more powerful crystal such as the Waystone do to her, or anyone else who enslaved it?


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