Skyron ... Waystone ... minds and oaths

Janny Wurts Chat Area: Arc 3: Alliance of Light: Stormed Fortress: Skyron ... Waystone ... minds and oaths

   By motley on Wednesday, June 28, 2006 - 02:15 am: Edit Post

Arithon does know that the F7 can support a mortal's right to free will - the fire-scarred spinster in PG told him she was able to request to remain free of the Koriani Order.

I don't think it's important whether she does it herself, or asks the F7 to intervene on her behalf. Elaira's shown that she'll choose her path carefully - for what's best. If asking for their intervention is best, she'll do it. If finding a way to cleanse the stones is best, she'll do it. She herself realised, that PERSONAL INTEGRITY meant nothing, she could kill herself, but the price of that would be too high in terms of Arithon's survival. In the end, she chose to remain bound and temper the end game.

I really want her to be free (hence my enthusiasm at the start of this thread) but I also realise she'll strategise and make sure that her choice will cause as little harm as possible and free as many as possible.


   By seljo on Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - 01:42 pm: Edit Post

The reason Elaira hasn't asked anyone to free her from her oath is because she hasn't thought of it -- her personality precludes her from thinking about it, yet. She gave Her Oath. Period. At this point in her life, she would never think of -- Can Not think of - going back on her oath. Why would she ask someone to relieve her of her sworn oath; IT'S AN OATH. There's a reason that the term "OathBreaker" is meant to have a HUGE negative connotation. IT'S BAD/EVIL to break an oath - people whose reaction to adversity is to think 'how do I get out of this' and include oath-breaking in their options are generally weak people; Elaira is neither weak, bad, or Evil so at this point, even if someone told her she could get out of it, she wouldn't -- in fact would probably be offended by the suggestion -- for the simple fact that she swore an oath (how many times can I say Oath?).

So -- having said that... swearing an oath on something false or where the underlying truths that led to the taking of the oath change -- well then -- IMHO, all bets are off. Elaira has to come to that point before she can even take the mental step to think about getting out of her oath let alone figuring out how to actually do it (F7, Arithon, or her own ingenuity).


   By Ryan Gohl on Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - 02:05 pm: Edit Post

Very well said Seljo. I completely agree with you.

Oaths should be binding, unless made under duress or under false premises.


   By Andy on Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - 02:45 pm: Edit Post

Yes, as a general proposition, oaths should be binding. But I think there are more complexities to consider. For example, some would say that the majority of oathtakers, children, lack the mental or legal capacity to grant their informed consent, i.e., they really don't understand the consequences of their actions. Is the question blurred even more if the beneficiary of the oath -- here, the Koriathain -- deceive or coerce the oathtaker. Or what if the beneficiary breaches trust in some material way. For example, the Koriathain are supposedly dedicated to relieving suffering, but have twisted their purpose (or been twisted by the Primes) over the course of 10,000 years. If the Prime materially betrays the altruistic principals of the order, is there not some argument that an initate would be justified in revoking her oath? Likewise, if Ath's immuatable law, which predates every oath, is seen an unsupplantable, and the Koriathain have in effect required initiates to give up something (perhaps, free will) which is unsurrenderable according to a higher power, is it really a crime to exercise such rights?


   By Ryan on Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - 03:49 pm: Edit Post

Hey Andy, I think what you are saying falls under the duress or false premises idea.


   By Richard on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 05:12 am: Edit Post

I believe the reason Elaira hasn't asked anyone to free her from her oath is that she does not believe there is any way to release it. People having always been teaching her that there is no way to revoke it.

I believe she would revoke it if she knew it was possible. For Arithon if not for herself. Especially as she is very disillusioned by Koriathain ways.


   By BILLEEBEE on Friday, September 29, 2006 - 08:34 am: Edit Post

Hi Ya
I haven't been on here for a very long time but came across this thread and had to reply. Better late than never i guess. :o)
Why can't Elaria free herself from her oath. The thing I have been musing on for a few years now is how are these two love birds ever going to get together with the threat of the waystone,order etc looming. Well didn't one of the F7 tell Elaria that her crystal's consciousness had accepted her spirit and chose her to be companion?? Well maybe that is the key to the lovers finding happiness without the orders interference? Could the crystal shield her in some way?! Who knows well only Janny does and that's why there are sooo may of us here. Later
Billeebee


   By Laneth Shadow-Walker on Monday, October 02, 2006 - 11:10 pm: Edit Post

Chiming in here a little late, I thought to add my thoughts on just why Elaira hasn't left the Koriathain, just yet.

If at all. Thinking over to Janny's other works;
The Cycle of Fire, To Ride Hell's Chasm & The Empire Trilogy, let's remember Janny's mind is amazing when it comes to political intrigue.

We have to remember that Elaira has been bound to Arithon's life cycle by Morriel, in accordance with her plan to use Elaira as leverage in her plot to capture Arithon. This Longevity brings about a completely different outlook to the world and life than any average "mortal" could comprehend, so when we think of Elaira wanting / needing to leave the Order, we are thinking that her life-span is limited (even in relation to our average 80-odd lives). She has almost 450 extra years on what she normally would have, or until Arithon dies.

Elaira has sworn to herself, both out of her love for him and for her private vow to blunt the corruption in her sacred order, that she would do all she could to help Arithon in surviving, for the good of Athera. She realised long ago his importance to the future of the world, her world.

Elaira isn't an average initiate - she has potential to go very far with her power, especially with her Crystal being (now) voluntarily bound to her. Though she is still tied to the Skryon Focus, there's an unspoken agreement between her and the inner echelon of the order that she be left mostly to her own devices. Neither side really knows the extent to how much power over the other they actually have, which is why the Order has set her as a key player in their plans time & again instead of removing her altogether, and why they never react overly badly to her transgressions against the order, whereas other initates would've been stripped bare much earlier on.


No, I believe Elaira has a much bigger purpose in Athera's future, and is tied to the return of the Paravians. Esp being 'chosen' by the Unicorn while she was in the care of Ath's Adepts.
Her place isn't set yet, but it is definately reserved.

Her freedom will be willingly given / taken when it comes time, and possibly by a faction that we don't actually expect it coming from.
I see Lysaer having a hand in it - a glimpse of the remaining Justice that's not tainted maybe?


   By Laneth Shadow-Walker on Monday, October 23, 2006 - 11:13 pm: Edit Post

Damn...I didn't mean to kill the thread...*cries*


   By Annette on Tuesday, January 22, 2013 - 07:55 am: Edit Post

I always thought Elaira was too self reliant to ask for help, she will do it herself her own way. And there is also the problem of her personal crystal and its wanting to still serve. She can hardly leave the order and leave it behind uncleared. She cannot clear it against the wishes of the crystal. And even though Asandir helped Enithen Tuer to leave the order, it does not seem to have completely freed her if she needed that knife for protection. Maybe Elaira does not want to live as an oath breaker?

And I thought the unicorn blessed Elaira rather than she was chosen by the unicorn. Dakar likely had a similar experience since he is suspiciously also missing three days from when he saw a unicorn when he was younger.

We have yet to see how Arithon's encounter with a unicorn works out.


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