So.. will Arc IV open shortly after the events at the end of Stormed Fortress, or will *some* time - years, decades, centuries? - pass on Athera before Arc IV starts?
I'm guessing years at most given some key items from the end of SF would seem to require playing out.. such as
- growth of Glendien's child and role in Arithon's future
- Elaira finding out the quandary of just what her crystal wanted to do and why it stayed
- Sulfin Evend staying the course of any possible redemption by Lysaer over the Curse. (Hmm... Lysaer thrown out of Compact, yet to face full Paravian justice for his actions; Sulfin Evend, sworn Caithdein's oath, latent clan lineage, **should** be able to withstand, intercede(?) in Paravian audience for Lysaer?)
- Oh, and wondering just what Davien might do with his dragon? Command her to find Ciladis and restore/return/retrieve him?
Interesting to note that the scene from Exile's Return hasn't come to fruition in Arc III.
Or this could start centuries later from end of SF and cover this via recall.
I remember Janny commenting on the fact that Acr IV will be able to read without prior knowledge of the first 3 arcs (I could be wrong there though)
The centuries-gap would make sense if this were the case...
Glendien's Child = must be written about because of the role the F7 / Biedar forsee her having in Arithon's future, (and the fact that he's Mother Dark's Chosen, I think Glendien's daughter & the Biedar will have more of a tied-in fate to Arithon)
Elaira finding out the quandary of the Crystal's chosen path - (the fact that it is a non-Atheran crystal might speak of its intent, along with the fact that the crystal might have been used by other initiates through the many years it's been in service to the Order)
Wouldn't the Black Rose prophecy speak of his return in the form of Arithon's Accession?
"Davien the Betrayer shall hear no reason, nor bow to the Law of the
Major Balance; neither shall the Fellowship be restored to Seven until
the Black Rose grows wild in the vales of Daon Ramon."
"The briar will take root on the day that Arithon s'Ffalenn embraces kingship."
About the only thing I am comfortable predicting is that Our Miss Wurts will once again blow our expectations, and our minds, clean out of the water.
She has NEVER let me down on that front! I love that very unpredictability.
SF spoiler spoiler spoiler spoiler
Off the top of my head, we also have not covered:
- the mysterious neutral ground between Lanshire and Araethura
- the vision of Lirenda having kidnapped Arithon (from GC I think?)
- the vision of the Alliance invading Havish during the time of Eldir's descendents
- the temporarily thwarted wraiths out of Marak
- the suggestion that Ciladis may have abandoned the F7 rather than been captured
- the vision of Arithon being gored by a unicorn
And just a curiousity I noticed:
The flag protecting Alestron is marked with a 6-pointed star symbol, which is also the symbol used on the overland map to mark a city that did not fall in the rebellion. This mark is also used on the Ettinmere Settlement -- I vaguely recall hearing mention of Ettin in my whirlwind first read of SF, and when I asked Janny about it by e-mail, she just grinned and said the story hadn't gotten there yet!
- Oh, and wondering just what Davien might do with his dragon? Command her to find Ciladis and restore/return/retrieve him?
I kind of think it's the other way around. The Dragon is the master and Davien is the pet. Or, better yet, their relationship seemed to be one of mutual symbiosis. I don't think he has the ability to command her to do anything.
Also, Davien not bowing to the Law of the Major Balance, wouldn't that BENEFIT the F7 because they would (now) have an agent that can act out where they can't? He can interfere where the LoMB won't allow the others.
This probably gets into the philosphy of it all, but I don't think the F7 would think that any good would ever come from someone (especially a Sorceror) being able to act outside the LoMB. Even that statement is a bit nonsensical, because any thing, by virutue of free choice, can always choose to act contrary to the LoMB. The F7 are bound to the LoMB by choice. To the extent Davien is not bound, it is by his choice. So according to the prophecy, Davien will recommit himself to the LoMB (perhaps he has already started to do this with his reincarnation and reconciliation (in part) with Asandir and Sethvir et al.), when the Black Rose grows wild in Daon Ramon and Arithon "embraces" kingship. I know the prophecy has been discussed at length in earlier threads, but both these requirements could very well be metaphors, not literal.
I'd love to see the Paravians return to questions Davien's actions, and get him to justify them within the bounds of the Dragons' binding.
Hmmm. I don't think that is how it works. I don't get the sense that the Paravians are "judges". Plus, I always got the sense that the drake's binding was self-executing, in other words, the F7, by their given consent, are incapable of acting contrary to the binding and are perhaps even compelled to fulfill it (e.g., destroy humans on Athera if necessary to preserve Paravian existence).
Andy - You Asked. :-)
You will need to stay at a total loss, a bit longer. This is not (entirely) cruelty on my part....but the fact is, while I DO know what this Arc must encompass, and have an accurate time line of its events, HOW I will present the information is of critical importance.
First of all - no title. This is deliberate. I HAVE a working title in my notes from lo, 30 years ago! And it's a Major Spoiler in its own right!!! So, I can't use it. Period. Just the words would ring too many chimes....I am in the process of letting the book develop, to see what OTHER title may emerge...and how the early chapters lay down, WHAT areas achieve denouement, and what areas won't (as part of the ongoing suspense) will be critical to how this arc flows. I will let the alternate title emerge once I have a grasp of how the story moves, on page. Knowing the EVENTS and the characters does not necessarily show which scenes will do the dramatic work of the unveiling.
Too many people are just now getting into Stormed Fortress, or (hopefully!!!) just discovering this series in its state of 3/4 completion to risk letting cats out of the bag. As the events in Arc III reached pitch, so, as a whole sweep, the series itself is now Reaching pitch...the denouements to come will be increasingly major.
Next, the loss of the hardback - and the state of affairs with no (yet) US publisher, means soon, I have to take the plunge and set this behemoth on the market. Arc IV, Book I is under contract to Britain - it will be my next complete novel...so...how to get that NEW title seen by an editor (here) who likely has no idea of the prior volumes (unless, of course, one comes onto the job already indoctrinated, or, even better, I hope! - rising numbers in Britain could make waves enough to turn a few heads - or - some other circumstance I cannot imagine drops serendipity into my lap) - this story will have to be fashioned to stand on its own. Much as possible, if not completely.
Tall order - I will have to write up to it.
The way Arc IV moves, this won't be difficult. In fact, the story line suits it quite beautifully...but this initial sequence does leave me with much the same mess that starting Chapter I, Curse of the Mistwraith did - (and that baby took 17 rewrites, all when I was very young, and didn't know much of how to handle a story on page) how do I tell a massively wide story from the view of a narrow cast of characters and present the immense complexity of what Else is there. All of it. New. You old readers HAVE to be given a fresh understanding and deeper angles....and there's quite a LOT to inventively reintroduce, just as, there's a whole lot to advance and move forward.
New readers won't know all the names and traditions, and I cannot take much time to reintroduce stuff. Period. The story must move Forward, not back. So I have to select each scene with more than the usual extreme precision.
This I can promise - the conflict will not stay static or ever be as it appears (you were well warned in the prologue!!!) This is NOT a linear story, but a dimensional one. As it expands, like ripples, the apparently linear progression of All Other plot lines will come to reveal wider facets.
It's a no holds barred, bang up explosion....so, speculate all you wish. Each arc has its distinct "signature" and this one will too!!!
If I tease you at all, with actual text - it's bound to unveil waaay more than I want. If there are any "innocuous passages" I have yet to encounter any.
Well, I'll have to wait. But what more can I say, than "Janny, you're the best." Thanks as always for your thoughtful comments. I will wait with bated breath.
I love it when you tease us Janny!
OK, I'm constantly going back to re-read the prologue from CotW. To me there are just too many clues there, but the one that always gets me going are the statements:
"The Wars of Light and Shadow were fought during the third age of Athera....."
"...,sages in the seventh age meditated upon the ancient past..."
So, I'll make the assumption that the definition of an "age" and the move from one to the next denotes a monumental event.
I'm not quite clear at present on ages 1 & 2, but I think the third age was the arrival of human refugees.
To move on, based on the prologue we will see the end of ages 3, 4, 5 & 6 before the sages sit down and ponder their collective navels.
Again I'm going to make the assumption that the end of the third age will be the end of the WoLaS.
To speculate what will be the monumental event to end Age 3?
The obvious one, the end of the WoLaS, redemption/removal of the curse of Lysaer, fall of the religion (prologue doesn't exactly say the religion still exists)maybe even Arithon and Lysaer teaming up to denounce/remove the false religion and then fix up the wraiths!
The end of the compact (But not by the F7 wiping out humanity to preserve the Paravians existence as we have humans in age 7)?
The end/release of the F7? For a number of reasons:
We have a loose dragon floating around that may end to the dangers of the existing dreaming dragons and dragon spawn, therefore the risk to the Paravians.
Hand over the control to the Clans/Beidar?
The end/cleansing/redemption of the Koriathain? (Although, I think this is more likely happen in Arc 4 with a confrontation between Elaria and Seldie/Morriel)
The return of the Paravians?
I'm rambling a bit, but the prologue simply does my head in, I know there are significant clues in there but I just can't pin them down. Then I read the tantilising clue from Janny's post .."(you were well warned in the prologue!!!)"
I'd love for others to join in and help me out...Of course Janny as I ask, You could provide a couple of more teasers!
Quote "...as we have humans in age 7" Do we? Couldn't the sages be Paravian? Or dragons? As dragons dream true, she could dream herself a mate! But the prologue doesn't actually say "humans".
Ahh yes very true, I made a prejudiced assumption that a "sage" must be human
Too much, too many ideas here, too tired, but two points --
'not a linear story' 'apparently linear progression of ALL other plot lines'- I find it hard to imagine the next arc could be anything but at a later date - but perhaps it could - perhaps it is parallel to the current story - think dimensions - time, space, other worlds, other races (paravian, dragon, biedar, Marak), other points of view. Janny has already spent energy retelling the story from a new perspective in Kewar, where we gained some amazing insights, why not again?
Second point about the future, too tired to be coherent but (1) the Paravians are immortal and cross-dimensional so if they exist in the 7th age why can't they tell the story from memory without the meditations of sages (I can't imagine Athera without Paravians), and (2) isn't there a hint that children of some sort (not necessarily human but the implication is there) exist in the 4th age? Somewhere Janny quotes a children's rhyme which I think is 4th age - can anyone recall where it is?
Mind you, I think writing from a dragon's point of view would be exhausting.
"Interesting to note that the scene from Exile's Return hasn't come to fruition in Arc III".
What scene is this? Could you point me to it (book, chapter, page, etc.)?
Thanks in advance.
Exile's Return is the graphic of Arithon in front of Ithamon with Alithiel and his signet ring. It is one of the front graphics for this website - http://www.paravia.com/JannyWurts/website/index2.html.
Arithon now has his signet ring back at the end of Stormed Fortress, so this scene is now possible in a future book.
Note also the copyright date on the image.. 1989!
That image there is my favourite of Arithon, and indeed of all the Atheran images. It is stunning.
In fact, (minus the cloak), what he's wearing is along the lines of what I want to wear to my wedding - my fiancÚ is slowing coming around, but just can't imagine it in her mind...
Personally I've always wanted a robe like Auskiere's (to the left), tailored to my build, for my wedding...but that was knocked back...
Damn my aversion to wearing a suit...
(I wear one every day to work - I want my wedding to be special, not just another day in a suit...)
In regards to Exile's Return, it seems like I had noticed once a long time ago that the clothes he's wearing in that painting matched the description of what he wore in GC before he goes ashore to begin the sequence of Fionn Areth's rescue...
Note: that may not be the scene I'm thinking of. I'm at my grandma's, so don't have the books to hand... but I clearly remember him pulling out those clothes, and Dakar was highly concerned and said something about how he was a little overdressed to commune with sheepherders [or some group like that], and Arithon was being very glib and agreed, and then he grabbed his lyranthe and left... and I think it was after he had been recruited Talvish and Vhandon... I think it's before he goes to rescue FA, but I could be wrong. If anyone has the book to look it up and confirm or deny, I'd appreciate it, because now I'm really curious.
Anyhow, my point is, the clothing matched what is in the painting. However, this may be irrelevent, because that may just be the attire he reaches for when he wants to indicate royal position.
I agree Mer.. the title "Exile's Return", the fact that Arithon is at Ithamon, his ancestral stronghold and ruling seat, garbed in his royal attire, with his royal sword (not activated)..
To me this looks suspiciously like - "embracing kingship"... black rose anyone?
I was trying to call the image up on the website, but can't. The cover page today is a building on fire (avoiding a spoiler there. Those who know, know which).
Any tips on how to pull it up?
Could you pls explain in a bit more detail how book publishing works, esp in the US? Do you have to market/sell each individual book in the series separately ...? Just a bit concerned with the time lag in getting the books here in the US and sort of worried that future books might not be released here. It's a bit expensive ordering from Amazon UK ...
Never mind. I found out how.
Laneth, I too wanted to get married in something different. I wear a suit everyday (my work clothes!), and wanted to wear something different than a tuxedo. What I wanted was full clan regalia, Farquharson tartan, but my wife wouldn't go for it. We didn't have the money (the biggest factor), and I already owned a tux (still have it, though a little small through the middle), and well...
Hope your wedding is a smash. If you love each other, it won't matter if you get married in rags. No one day is ever "perfect" (a curse on all wedding planners!). Weddings can be really, really fantastic fun, or dull and boring! Concentrate on having fun, and the rest will fall into place. Plus, people will remember it if its fun.
Hey maybe I'm a bit behind the times but is Exile's Return a book I have missed somehow. If so what order does it go in cause I have all of the books(or so I think) but I don't have that one.
I remember being maid of honor when my best friend and her hubby eloped - there was getting to be TOO much tension within the families about just HOW the wedding was going to go (without consulting the bride and groom, of course!) so they decided to chuck it all aside and elope.
It was March 17 (St. Patrick's Day, the groom being of mostly Irish descent, as well as the bride) and they got married in the park they loved so much. The problem was, it was cold, windy, and rainy, - the wind blew quite a bit of moisture on us, even under the shelter we stood under - and the minister, my foster dad, was wearing a suit TOTALLY wrong for the season. My brother had told him to wear his wool suit, but he would not listen.
So Chet and I, along with the bride and groom, ended up serving partially as windblock for the minister, so he would not freeze. It was pretty funny hearing the traditional words of a marriage ceremony spoken by a minister with chattering teeth!
"D-d-d-d dearly b-b-b-beloved we are g-g-g-gathered here t-t-t-today..."
At the last moment, I had made the wedding cake - an amateur job at best, but at least they had one! A four leaf clover made of four small heart shaped cakes and LOTS of green frosting to keep it from looking like four small heart shaped cakes.
We went to a cafe in the park afterwards, so we could have wedding cake, and get dad some coffee so he could thaw out.
As Clansman said, it wasn't the dream wedding, but it was memorable, and fun.
Brittani, Exile's Return is not a book, it's a painting of Arithon.
shahab mustaq - welcome here. Thanks for your concern. There is a strategy, but it has to be taken one step at a time.
Of paramount importance at the moment - that the London edition is successful. If it exceeds expectations - better still.
If you want to know more about how the industry works....it's complex, convoluted....sometimes not (apparently) logical. Look up the blog written by Miss Snark. Very humorous, an agent in NY answers questions from writers who are hopeful of breaking in, or else runs on about the quirks of the industry, from inside. It's cynical, very - but all too true in many ways.
A clue: publishers are NOT charities. They run on profits and losses. The numbers that count for them, are not how many people read the books or come to appreciate them years down the road, but HOW MANY BUY THE BOOKS, new.
Used, overstock, library check outs - do nothing to pay for their costs, or reward their upfront risk - or credit the author's track record, which for a publisher, is the bottom line. A track record is only as good as the last book, no matter if timing, recession, any other blip or mistake -- whatever the event may be, that may come to purge a list, or reduce budget for acquisitions - or whether shifts in corporate policy, mergers, personel firings and hirings and cutbacks -- whatever rains down from On High that can shift the ground, underfoot. Not least, if debt from a crashed major mainstream title, or bad debt from distribution or book store bankruptcies hit a publisher's owed funds, leaving them with a loss on stock actually sold. (Yes, a major distributor bit the dirt in the past year, scandalously leaving MILLIONS in debt on the publishers' bottom lines.) These fluctuations are not taken into account. Computer tracking of over the counter sales equals the numbers sold, NEW per individual author's name, and steady sales, no matter the recessions and tides of marketplace movement are what keep the computer restock function going. A fall off in demand will not trigger reprints or keep stock levels moving. That is the record. Period.
Large series need a constant influx of new readers to replace ones who fall by the wayside for whatever reason.
So market awareness of a title needs to keep on feeding into the system. If there is no advertising campaign, or if there is little to no availability of a book or any listing of it (due to no publisher) - you can add it up. What feeds the record?
Support London until the strategy has time to take hold, if you like the story. Support awareness of the books to new readers - for ANY title you like - to increase awareness, as many books in our genre DO NOT HAVE AN ADVERTISING BUDGET...always support what you love, if there is a living creator -- you will get more books in that venue.
I've been trying to do my bit to further interest in Janny's books. I've got at least three people interested in the series and, hopefully, they're passing the word on. In the meantime, I've been ordering the books from Amazon. UK and, if nothing else, it has been an education as to how weak the U.S. dollar is. But I consider the books to be worth the extra.
For me, SF was a deeply satisfying book. I enjoy Davien. Between Arithon and Davien, Selidie/Morriel is getting her just desserts.
I'm hoping that the U.S. publishers will finally wake up and smell the coffee, considering the fact that they seem to be able to publish much less worthy authors from my viewpoint which may be a bit skewed. Or maybe that's "wrong way to" and we need to education the American public. *G*
I too have been trying to spread the word of Janny. Tried to do my part by preordering on Amazon UK. I am sorry to hear about the US publisher, but I admit that I have ordered the last three from the UK since they come out several months earlier over there.
SF was excellent and I can't wait for arc 4 to begin! The wait is painful, but always worth it.
Robin and Shirley:
You could further support the London release by joining (in good faith, only!) sffchronicles.co.uk, which is a fantasy/sci-fi site. Comment on the threads started on Janny, or start new ones if you wish. It is best, IMHO, to "lurk" a while and get a flavour for the site before diving in too fast, or you might find the water a little chilly!
Certainly, I would advise that you comment on other authors that you like as well as Janny's stuff, otherwise it has the look of spamming, despite its honesty.
Coming back to Exile's Return, which I've finally rediscovered - does anyone else think that the briars immediately behind Arithon look like they could be roses?
I'm an excellent "lurker." I seldom post although I enjoy reading other people's posts. I like this site because there aren't any putdowns on other person's viewpoints or interpretation of the storyline. A number of years ago I got in on a chat room run by Jordan fans and they were extremely insulting. I haven't been back since.
Welcome to the board and thanks for the kind words on how it is run.
Hi Shirley - warm welcome, honored to have you.
I get the feeling that growing the interesting in Janny's work is getting more and more interest across many different forums. It worked for Erikson, so it should work here as well.
I too like the tone of this Board better than others. Not too condescending, not too harsh and very willing to share ideas. Good Stuff.
Thankfully, the Good Manners Champion is a Gryphon who does NOT put up with nonsense.
Blue is right. But on the other hand, I've rarely had to take direct action. People here are, simply put, exercising good manners.
We have a cool crew!
Thanks all for the warm welcome. Many thanks to Janny for quality reading. I'm not a huge fantasy fan but she certainly holds my interest. With the exception of one book, I believe I have everything she has written.
In response to an earlier post regarding Lysaer going to the King's Glade, I'd first like him to go through Kewar since he revealed in his lucid moment that he had a pretty good idea of what was driving him. Hope I said that right. If I remember correctly, Davien was sizing him up just after Arithon entered the maze. From the end of SF it didn't seem that he felt so self-righteous that Kewar wouldn't affect him. Probably wishful thinking on my part.
Hi. My name is Kirsten Wallace. I also happen to love this series. Unfortunately I can't convince any of my friends to read it. Like Shirley I tend to just read what the rest of you are writing on here. It's all really interesting. Hopefully I'll find a topic to join in on sometime.
Hi Kirsten Wallace - welcome!
Just finished Stormed Fortress. Wow! What a lot happened, very quickly.
Does anyone know when the next book is expected?
It will be interesting to see what Lysaer does to try and rid himself of the curse, now that he is aware of it. It would be against his character now to ignore it, and I think in SF he is shown to be enough aware of the curse and its consequences to be forced to recognise pride and seek assistance.
Also, surely Elaira can be released from her vow to the Koriathain by the F7 if she ASKS them? Because that would be her free will.
Paul Davies - welcome here!
Glad to hear you enjoyed the book. I am working on the sequel, now - see the status thread. No OFFICIAL release date will be announced until I've turned in the manuscript - it's working along very well, so at least, I anticipate the best.