A question regarding Arithon?

Chat Area | Janny Wurts - Official Website: Author's Corner: A question regarding Arithon?
   By Rhett Jones on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 06:26 am: Edit Post

I've always wondered just how powerful is Arithon compared to a Fellowship Sorceror, and can the Fellowship add to their numbers by recruiting someone like Arithon?

Isi t possible that Arithon could become something like a FS and return to his splinter world where he'd be immortal like one of the other 7?

   By Janny Wurts on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 09:52 am: Edit Post

If, by placing this question in this area of the forum, you wished it directed to me, please be specific (ask me by name). Otherwise, it will be left for general speculation.

This is my way of showing respect for fans' discussions, where they wish to air and share their findings freely, and without any untoward steering thrown in from me. (smile).

   By Rhett Jones on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 12:55 pm: Edit Post

Sorry about that Janny, yes it was directed at you. After all who better than the source!

   By Rhett Jones on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 01:00 pm: Edit Post

Sorry about that Janny, yes it was directed at you. After all who better than the source!

Sorry for the double post

   By Cheryl on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 02:07 pm: Edit Post

I've wondered that too Rhett if their could be another member added to the Fellowship of Seven like Arithon. It's been something I wonder about now and then when I read the books.

   By Hannah on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 02:56 pm: Edit Post

I believe it's been dropped before that no members could ever be added to the F7. I don't recall the exact specific reason, but it could be due to the oaths sworn by the Sorcerers, which would be impossible to duplicate at this point in time with no Drakes, or even Paravians, available for a quick ceremony.

Also, Arithon is very gifted and also talented, but he is just, what?, 50 years old or so? Whereas the Fellowship have, em, quite a headstart on him in the experience department. Any of the Fellowship could pretty much level Athera with an idle thought, if they wanted to, and frankly Arithon is nowhere near that part, as far as I can tell. If Arithon's reaction to Asandir's power in CotM is any indication, then their power greatly surpasses his own.

Arithon's potential is probably limitless, though. But remember, he's not going to live forever. I doubt he'd want to.


   By Rhett Jones on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 04:52 pm: Edit Post

Would Arithon want to live forever? Maybe if he thought it was his duty? And I guess if he had a companion like Elaira, I'm sure immortality wouldn't seem that bad. As for power, from my interpretation, Arithon has abilities that neither the Fellowship Sorcerers or the Paravians had. After all, who got rid of Deshtiere (spelling?), even if only temporarily. And I guess there can always be ways to pass on knowledge quickly, some sort of mind transfer or something. The FS seem stale, so much so that within just a few paras, Davien showed me different. He's someone who seems willing to act, no matter the consequences, so they need new young blood.

   By Cheryl on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 05:56 pm: Edit Post

By appearance Arithon looks in his 20's I guess he'll stay youthful for 500 years. Good to know he won't get old and gray and need a cane. lol

   By Janny Wurts on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 06:25 pm: Edit Post

OK then, you asked --

Why the Fellowship of Seven will never "expand" - one needs to fully understand their origins, what they are, how they came to be, what their purpose of existence IS.

ONE: they were summoned by a Drake's dream - which means, the dragon dreamed what Athera required to underwrite and secure Paravian survival AND the force (read 7 spirits) who PRECISELY matched that template of intent answered, due to what they were in that EXACT pinpoint instant of time - and the original seven, as a direct consequence of who and what they were, AND (don't underestimate this) what they believed themselves to BE - at that split second moment that the dream was cast -- engendered and launched by the power of creation (without love)-- those who became the Sorcerers you know were drawn and became bound to that fate.

Therefore, for reason one, the Seven can never, and as they are now, (after they encountered the Paravians, and so claimed their self-redemption) will never, delegate their bound status, even if they could.

TWO - they bear the magic, bestowed by the Dragons, to secure Paravian survival. This is not something anyone could treat to achieve. Athera's dragons do not bargain. They are not a FORCE that humans could meddle with. The attempt would result in utter annihilation.

Arithon does not hold nearly the power of a Fellowship Sorcerer, by many orders of magnitude - Davien's warning admonishment in PG, last scene said so straight out....take note of the frail and perilous stay that restrains their hand, also mentioned there in most unvarnished sincerity.

Spellbinders are those the Seven have trained and led to initiation - they cannot be mistaken for an "apprentice, cum potential Sorcerer, cap S) Arithon's master status derives and descends from the training and initiation given to Dari s'Ahelas by Sethvir to assist her survival.

She, a born rogue talent, is a tale all to herself.

Therefore, at this moment, Arithon's powers as master sorcerer derive from Fellowship teaching ADDED TO his gift, refined by Halliron's guidance to Masterbards title, ADDED TO a transcendent initiation won through the challenge of Davien's maze. His use of elemental mastery - is a rogue gift, derived from and bestowed by Mak s'Ahelas' independent experimentation, which took place off world and not on Athera, therefore, outside reach of the compact...never EVER doubt the Fellowship do not have the capability to have replicated that step.

For the soundest of reasons, they didn't, and wouldn't, a great deal of which is an emerging part of this story and to unfold in subsequent arcs.

You will, guaranteed, see more of the breadth and depth within the Fellowship's workings in TK...

   By Demi on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 11:41 pm: Edit Post

Maan Lady!!! how many layers deep does this story decend? Even if the story ends I'm sure I could read it 10 times from beginning to end and still not comprehend the story other than the major plot line. Makes for enjoyably long reading though.

   By Neil on Monday, August 23, 2004 - 10:39 am: Edit Post

However Arithons gifts could become "unmanageable" with the crown jewels (In COTM, Sethvir/Asandir ward the jewels)?

Unmanageable by himself perhaps?

I always thought that "unmanageable" would mean Arithon could cause the F7 problems...if ever his "agenda" did not agree with theirs. But yes, daviens comments contradict such an idea.

I guess the F7 wanted to minimise foreseeable problems for themselves/Arithon?

   By Auna on Monday, August 23, 2004 - 02:17 pm: Edit Post

Arithon may be weak compared to F7, but he has fewer restrictions on his power. Having his magic back on top of his fully developed bardic gift has got to be giving the F7 indegestion.

   By Blue on Monday, August 23, 2004 - 03:31 pm: Edit Post

Not mentioning, Auna, that he has befriended the most wildly creative of the F7, who does NOT feel constrained to omit certain details during a briefing.

   By Neil on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 02:03 am: Edit Post

Thanks Anna, I missed the "obvious" there :-)

Moriel and Lirenda believed Arithon's responsibilies would become too hard to bear (gift of compassion etc. etc. )... I wonder whether this is still a valid conclusion?

Yes, Davien does seem very pleased that Arithon survived in Kewar actually ;-)

While I'm not sure why Davien is not contrained by Law of Major Balance (Black rose prophesy + I thought that respecting LOTM was obligatory for a F7 member...LOTM is more than just respecting/asking permissions?) he seems keen for Arithon to have access to his library.

Arithon did not "ask"...isn't this contrary to expected F7 behaviour?

Maybe being proved fit for kingship automatically give the F7 responsability to "educate"?)

If Arithon has a choice and a war can't be avoided between clans and towns...what is he likely to do? Why is he back down in Shand (excerpt) and he certainly seems to be passing through Alestron (now "warded" we learn...except).
I guess the "Koriani Arithon hunt" will continue...

   By Deborah McNemar on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 07:51 am: Edit Post

"Arithon did not "ask"...isn't this contrary to expected F7 behaviour?"

Not really. If you recall, Arithon did not ask to have his sight opened to the dancing of the paravian shades, either. Asandir offered and Arithon accepted. Davien offers the books but it is Arithon's CHOICE to go looking and studying. Does that makes sense?

   By Neil on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 02:14 am: Edit Post

yes, thanks Deborah.

I'm just looking for new bits and pieces I missed before inbetween books...I don't always succeed...


   By Michelle-Louise on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 04:18 am: Edit Post

Would Arithon have survived Kewar if he wasn't blood bound to?

   By Neil on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 05:44 am: Edit Post


I believe so. Ultimately he accepted redemption.

At each stage where he faced his guilt in Kewer, there was a balancing influence forgiving him / presenting him with a alternative viewpoint to put things in perspective.

He "paid" with the lost of his magesight during the battle in Rathain but he was acting to save the clans. The Vastmark attack seems to have been mitigated by the Vastmark girl he tried to save. Ultimately his father and the centaur encouraged him to recognise that he was not ultimately responsible for the deaths of those who by free will went to war against him, i.e. for me the blood oath not directly related(?)

However, the blood oath may well have played a part in Fugitive prince though at the end where Arithon is in a very bad way after Caolle's capture/death?

The request for blood oath seems to be Kharadmon's reaction to his exeriences on Marak independent of mistwraith curse/Aliance of Light/koriani threats(?)

   By Michelle-Louise on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 08:58 am: Edit Post

I think that he needs to survive mistwraith curse/Aliance of Light/koriani threats to stay in reserve for Maraks attack.

   By Neil on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 02:20 am: Edit Post


I found a passage in PG where Arithon nearly "gives up" in Kewar but he was "forbidden by the blood oath not to go on..." or something like that.

So the blood oath appears to have been necessary there.

   By Mark Stephen Kominski on Saturday, July 01, 2006 - 09:15 am: Edit Post


I've been an avid buyer and reader of your books for many years, tracing back to Stormwarden, and without exception become enthralled with each new offering (witness: wife's voice in the background "When are you going to put that book down and go to sleep?!!!).

I have 2 questions about Arithon for you (and hope they won't prove to be spoilers):

1. I like the predominantly ocean concept of Dascen Elur and it's sea-faring cultures; will we seen any current interraction with that splinter, or is it's frame of reference only in the historical/flashback context for Arithon and Lysaer?

2. Like another member (I think the name was "Max"), I've been wondering about the North and East Worldsend Gates, and whether they'd assume roles in Arithon's story (even a simple "Yes" or "No' reply would be treasured!)...

Thanks for your time and for sharing your inspirations these many years.

Mark a.k.a. "Pukahsoda"

P.S. I can't believe I found another soul (in the music chat room, I think) who actually remembers the band "Icehouse".

P.P.S. I'm sure you don't want for lack of these, but if you're ever looking for another test reader, look no further!

   By Janny Wurts on Sunday, July 02, 2006 - 10:57 am: Edit Post

Hi Mark -

Welcome here - and thanks for the nice words of enthusiasm.

You Asked:
Dascen Elur and its sea faring culture - and the North and East Worldsend Gates -- nothing in these stories is "window dressing." Therefore you can expect you will come to see and understand more and deeper connections.

If not in centerline Depth, in the main story line of the novels, then definitely you might see something set there in the short story and side material I want to generate - but as I write these, they tend to tie straight into emerging threads as they surface in the novels -- such material won't be Repeated in the novels, but will offer more up close and detailed insight. (If you found the short story Child of Prophecy in the anthology Masters of Fantasy, you will see very well how this works - or get the upcoming anthology edited by Julie Czerneda and Jana Paniccia, titled Under Cover of Darkness, and look up my story The Sundering Star - you will encounter Actual History, and so, have a very clear lens where a passing mention that occurs in the novel Will Take You Eventually. Lends you the edge, so to speak, on what's behind and coming forward, fast.)

Without looking at any sidebar material -- you are likely to see such stitches picked up in Fourth and yet more likely, the Fifth Arc of Light and Shadow.

For right now, there are some answers already in the FAQ section of this website.

Beyond Yes or No:

Expect that At Some Point, the question of why the stars from Dascen Elur were present in the ghost drake's dream, when Arithon recognized the configuration of those constellations while crossing the Grimward (Fugitive Prince) will crop up.

   By Hunter on Monday, July 03, 2006 - 07:32 am: Edit Post

In FP, Dakar's thoughts were that Arithon himself was somehow interacting with, or influencing the grimward, to produce the Dascen Elur stars. Neither Dakar nor Felirin have been to Dascen Elur so only Arithon (of those three) could have had knowledge of this..

The Worlds End gates were setup by the Fellowship, so someone had to know how and where to find these other worlds - which were setup as part of the Compact. I also wonder whether the earlier reference to the tome on Celestial mechanics might be at play somehow? We don't know how far/near the worlds through the Worlds End gates are. We know Kharadmon (and free wraiths) crossed the void to Marak (which I think was like Dascen Elur and a world linked to Athera via the land through a Gate - South Gate in this instance).

It would seem all the great drake's had departed prior to the end of the Second Age so that was before the creation of the Worlds End gates.. could they fly to other worlds through the void as well?

   By Mark Stephen Kominski on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 09:38 pm: Edit Post

Thanks for the reply and hints. Two more books for the summer reading list! I'd written most of the peripheral stuff that happened to Arithon in the Grimward off as "hallucinogenic" effects of the dead dragon's dream; guess I'd better read it again!


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