Again I'm don't understand the reasoning behind the F7's idea of consent. It most certainly is hard to ask for help if you don't know you are supposed to ask. Elaira still hasn't been informed that she can ask. and then there is such a thing as 'informed consent'. at least in our world. yes, I know I am comparing to our world again and I also realize you can't idiot proof the world. So when Lysaer didn't take the help offered by the sorcerers I don't believe that he knew what he was turning down. i.e.- 'we would like to offer this surgery which could help you a little.' but then they don't tell him that without the surgery he will live a miserable life or maybe even die. I know I am not being clear here, but now with my second reading and numerous little parts readings I am now nitpicking. [please Janny don't even get the idea that I am disliking anything about the book. I love this story.] but I am an argumentative type and to let all of you in on my secret,,,, I don't argue with any logic at all. One of these days I will tell you of the arguments I have with the characters in this story. It's pretty funny actually but then I kill myself sometimes!! grinning at ya
F7 and consent...
I guess any advice would be considered interference / intervention with another being's "chosen" (at least on some level?) destiny.
They are not there to serve/guide humanity but there is mention of something like "fostering enlightenment where they can" in CotM.
The F7 responsibility for the planet's health and the royal lines means they must intervene with royal/clan issues...the townborn seem to be left alone except where royal issues are involved (e.g. political leaders in Etarra in CotM).
I think that the major lesson learnt by the F7 in the past is that intervening on certain levels is an error (and one is responsible for the outcome).
However, the F7 do "cheat" from time to time...e.g. Asandir and Dakar in FP: Asandir says something like "one wonders at your lack of curiosity." prompting Dakar to ASK. However, in TK when Dakar asks Luhaine for help Luhaine cannot help Fionn to the extent that he'd like because Fionn on some level refuses help ("you give me nothing to work with", or something like that).
cheating ?!.... yes, I like cheating. HAPPY HALLOWEEN. [grinning at ya]
What Elaira learns on the way to her realizing she can ask to get out of the oath could be very important to Arithon and the future of humanity. She's strongly fated, so the less interference the better.
Dakar, as spellbinder, is more easily cheated with since he's supposed to be learning stuff anyway.
I noticed Arithon mentions Sethvir's "pilfering touch" or something like that concerning the black grimoires in Davien's "pad".
I wonder whether Arithon has experienced this first hand. Seems unusual for Arithon to mock Sethvir out of hand without some additional reason (or is Arithon just amused that the F7 can turn up, enact their duties as per the compact at will with the pesky necromancing humans being none the wiser until it's too late).
Or maybe he suspected way back when in CotM, that the loss of the Great Waystone during the Uprising, and its subsequent "guesting" at Althain Tower was no accident? The presence of the grimoires in Davien's library were not accidental, either.
Arithon spent years as a Karthish pirate, and it may actually have been a compliment.
Davien was offended so I guess Arithon was disapproving.
I think that Arithona and Elaira feel they are being dealt a bad hand by the F7 since the F7 intervene when they judge failure imminent. Elaira was not in agreement with the drake binding enforced decision in TK. E. & A. are not getting the chance "to fail" on their own merits...although presumably the F7 are in the best position to judge such things.
Perhaps this is a danger: when human talented as Arithon and Elaira are do not accept the F7 wisdom as a given. Evidently Davien feels the F7 are capable of bad decisions. Are the F5 capable of acting in their best interests at the expense of humanity? Or is it simply the Land then humans...Arithon, as human (or as royalty?) "is the land"...if I read his conclusion correctly in PG.
Arithon would not have encountered the waystone directly before TK (the ship attack). It was Lysaer with Traithe that saw it in COTM (Hence his deal with the koriani in FP)
If the F7 did "lift" the koriani waystone during the uprising; what was their justification for intervention? Presumbly to protect the land in some way.
Curious that the F7 would keep the grimoires yet destroy many papers on gunpowder.
--If the F7 did "lift" the koriani waystone during the uprising; what was their justification for intervention? Presumbly to protect the land in some way.--
Well, from what we have already seen, the F7's understanding of the Law of the Major Balance means that if the Korani had ever actually *asked* for the Fellowship's help to find the Waystone (or asked for it back) they would have had to give it - that was, in fact, what happened once Lirenda did finally get to Altain Tower when Sethvir was in - and I also think it's one of the funniest things, because it turned out that what Elaira said as a flippant remark the first time we ever saw her in "Mistwraith" ("Why don't we just ask the Fellowship for our waystone back, then we won't need to bother with all this boring lane-watching") was exactly what happened.
As to why - well, it was the Koriathain possession of the Waystone that allowed Morriel to disrupt the lane flow, upsetting those grimwards, keeping Sethvir in bed for the best part of the last year (so far), freeing the Khadrim, and meaning that Athera has survived only by the most desparate measure - so, yeah, I'd say it was pretty much an obvious idea that keeping the stone out of powerful but extremely unwise hands turned out to be a good idea...
--Curious that the F7 would keep the grimoires yet destroy many papers on gunpowder.--
Well, I think that there's some linkage of gunpowder being the first step on the road to *scientific* (ie non-magical) weapons of mass destruction leading to a repeat of the horrors that brought the F7 to Athera in the first place. I guess, necromancy, while being horrible and despicable in itself, presumably doesn't lead to any even more horrible land-threatening consequences down the line..
Davien was offended so I guess Arithon was disapproving.
I don't know, Neil, because the knowledge/information in those grimoires were abhorrent to anyone who follows the LotMB.
Davien is something of a mystery to everyone but the rest of the F7, and even they have gaps in their understanding of him.
Again, Arithon DID sail with pirates for a number of years, and this may have been meant as a compliment, because it got such a collection of books out of circulation, but it backfired because
1. Davien was not the one who lifted the books out of the library of the necromancers
2. The cultural joke may not have been immediately clear to Davien.
Of course, this is presuming, and that is dangerous where Janny is concerned, that Arithon had absorbed a pirate culture's outlook to the point where he would make a joke like this.
I don't think I am making any sense at this moment, please forgive me!!
Do we know that Davien doesn't have books on gunpowder, etc. in his library? What about Althain Tower's?
I made a mistake; the F7 did not destroy any of Magyre's papers. Magyre could not bear to burn all of them himself.
WRT F7 "pilfering", I remembered it wrong too
Arithon grins at the theft and then laughs at Davien's silence at Arithon's initial accusation.
so much for trying out an idea...roll on SF ;-)
Davien probably has books on the formula for nuclear explosions!!! [smiling at ya]