Archive through December 21, 2004

Janny Wurts Chat Area: Arc 3: Alliance of Light: Fugitive Prince, Grand Conspiracy; Peril's Gate & Traitor's Knot: Traitors Knot Discussions: Spoiler Topics: Wow...: Archive through December 21, 2004
   By Izzy on Thursday, November 25, 2004 - 07:54 am: Edit Post

SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER.

In case you missed it, this post contains spoilers... :-) Well, kinda.

Janny, All I can say is WOW! I haven't even finished the book yet but... WOW! I just finished that whole scene with Sulfin and Lysaer in Avenor (pages mid 200's of the UK TP edition). I was cheering when the lane tide crested. I got some funny looks from the wife and a friend who is over. (My wife reads these also, and is eager for me to finish).

And I LOVE what Arithon did to upset Selidie/Morriel :-)

Gotta get back to it. If the second half of the book is as intense as the first half, I'm going to be mentally exhausted.

Regards,

CJ


   By Janny Wurts on Thursday, November 25, 2004 - 01:47 pm: Edit Post

Cj - Thank you so much for posting your enroute joyful impression - :-)

It gets MORE intense....should I apologize... (hah! nope....)

Let us know how you survive the course, pioneer.


   By Kam on Friday, November 26, 2004 - 01:52 am: Edit Post

SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER ETC

My mind is reeling from the scope of everything that's happened so it'll take me a while to get to grips with the events.

Oh but I love this "new" Arithon. Who knew that he was such a cheeky little devil!

And Davien rocks my boat to no end.

Janny:
You are really tough on your characters. :P Hasn't he been traumatised enough? *sniffs*


   By Izzy on Friday, November 26, 2004 - 08:31 am: Edit Post

SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER.

Finally finished. I would have completed the book a number of hours ago, but two things occured to stop me. My parents arrived to visit from out of town, and my dog decided (whilst in my lap) to make a vigrous welcome to my wife when she got home from work, and proceeded to use my right eyeball as leverage to get out of my lap. It's been hard to read between the pain and the cold compress :-)

For those of you who are sneaking peaks at this thread to gain some insight before you read, I'm going to disappoint you. My preference is to allow a larger number of people to read the book before discussions start. I personally don't want to spoil the story for anyone, and I do know how tempting it can be to read these spoiler threads. I will, however, say the following...

It's a wild ride. There are a couple of spots in the book when you can take a break and get some sleep/do some work. I STRONGLY suggest you take them, because within the next chapter, the ride starts again.

Also, whilst the story doesn't end (as we all know), it does have ALOT more closure than PG did. I think it's safe to say that whilst I eagerly await SF, the wait will be easier than it was for TK.

All in all a great work as usual Janny. About halfway through I seemed to find a few things that didn't ring the same way as the previous books (notably the short three paragraph snippets between chapter sets) but at the end it all came together excellently.

Thanks so very much for sharing this story with us.

Regards,

CJ


   By skeoke on Friday, November 26, 2004 - 12:35 pm: Edit Post

Gotta leave the board until I have copy in hand and have caught up.

SPOILERS are just way too tempting to read!


   By Dorothy on Friday, November 26, 2004 - 03:31 pm: Edit Post

I think I'll follow in your footsteps skeoke and return when I've read it too.This is agony-hopefully shortlived!


   By Blue on Friday, November 26, 2004 - 07:34 pm: Edit Post

I think Auna said it best in another thread:

"All the time you are spending here, you who have the book NOW, are cutting into precious reading time. Shoo!"


   By Mark Timmony on Saturday, November 27, 2004 - 12:47 am: Edit Post

So Izzy, can you imagine how hard it was for me to keep silent re: certain revelations? :-D hehehehe.


   By Izzy on Saturday, November 27, 2004 - 03:38 am: Edit Post

Mark,

Yes, I know exactly how you feel :-)

Regards,

CJ


   By wolfhunter on Sunday, November 28, 2004 - 05:09 am: Edit Post

Sorry Skeoke,
the temptation is too big! My book is still not available in Oz. So I must sneek in here and drool over your snippets.
It sounds as if it is as good as we would all imagine. I would not have expected anything else from Janny. Geez, got no finger nail left. Got to check with my bookseller tomorrow and probably every day until it's in my hot little hand.
Cheers
an envious Wolfhunter


   By Leonie on Sunday, November 28, 2004 - 03:45 pm: Edit Post

Well, what a great book!!!! I finished it last night - and it certainly was a wild ride.
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Loved the bit where Arithon figures out how to "tame" iyats. Loved all of it in fact! There were some answers presented, but many more questions posed, and I can't wait to find out whether Sulfin Evend and Arithon arrive at Sanpashir together - and if they do, what the outcome is.

Just a quick note, as I have to get to work, kids to school etc.

Thanks for a great book Janny. Now I need to read it at a slower pace, for all the nuance that I'm sure I missed. :-)

Leonie


   By Kam on Sunday, November 28, 2004 - 09:18 pm: Edit Post

Spoiler Spoiler ditto ditto ditto

Yeah, I have this mental image of him commanding objects to fly around the room ala Mickey in Disney's Fantasia. (He's also mumbling "Bibbity bobbity boo" for some wierd reason...)

And I hope they do! I've always wanted Arithon to meet Sulfin, since it would be such a cracker, considering Jieret's brief but significant meeting with Lysaer. Besides, Arithon has such a way on him - he manages to turn everyone he meets. Eventually.

Considering Arithon's compassionate nature, I wonder why he hasn't expressed any form of pity towards Lysaer before. Although I suppose the curse prevents him from feeling anything other than hatred when it comes to a certain half-brother...

Hmmm... I dinna want to spoil anything for anyone. So I'll wait before posting about speculations and wotnot. :p


   By Shaerra on Tuesday, November 30, 2004 - 07:51 am: Edit Post

Hi all,

Having just, like 10 mins ago finished the book all i can say is *wow* and when's the next one due? *grin*

Oh it is available here in Oz, picked it up from A&R in Brisbane on saturday.


   By Auna on Wednesday, December 01, 2004 - 02:04 pm: Edit Post

Great read! I love Sulfin's character even more now!

Davien... wow...

Arithon... wow...

Lots to mull over and reread :-)


   By kempc on Thursday, December 02, 2004 - 02:58 am: Edit Post

Got the book on Monday and just finished it today (Thursday). Fantastic - must admit I did miss out on some sleep along the way. Love the large format (it stays open) only problem is it's harder to hold up out of the water in the bath - but it turned out I shouldn't have been reading it in the bath anyway (stayed in too long and got all wrinkled). And I have to say Galaxy bookshop in Sydney is really serious about making the book obvious - it's in a display right next to the entry/counter area. Like others have said, I have to now re-read it at a slower pace....Do we have to wait till March for the next one?


   By Trys on Thursday, December 02, 2004 - 05:29 am: Edit Post


quote:

Do we have to wait till March for the next one?


Maybe a bit longer than that as Janny is still writing it. :-)

Trys


   By George on Thursday, December 02, 2004 - 05:08 pm: Edit Post

Reading the book....and haven't quite finished it yet...but one overwhelming thought has crossed my mind....

the Koriani are REALLY a bunch of COWS/TROLLS!

SPOILER:......>

I like the interplay between Sulfin and the Koriani at Hanshire...it gives a greater insight in to the machinations of the Order.


   By Demi on Friday, December 03, 2004 - 01:20 pm: Edit Post

If this is a spoiler, you guys are not spilling anything. Just dish it out suspense is killing me here!!


   By Auna on Friday, December 03, 2004 - 01:37 pm: Edit Post

We are all trying to be very vague so people don't possibly ruin their experience. I suspect things will get more concrete after the Feb release is out. Trust me, you don't want to have any spoilers. I almost regret reading the excerpts.


   By Trys on Friday, December 03, 2004 - 03:24 pm: Edit Post

Not to say that anyone has to post spoilers but... anyone who doesn't want to read them won't as long as the SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER is put on the top of them. Also, it might just be possible that the author is dying to know how you reacted to various parts of the book. ;)


   By Demi on Friday, December 03, 2004 - 07:57 pm: Edit Post

February!!! Trust me you don't even want me to start about that again.


   By fhcbandmom on Friday, December 03, 2004 - 08:31 pm: Edit Post

"Also, it might just be possible that the author is dying to know how you reacted to various parts of the book. ;)"

Being a really mean and ornery person (my children have bestowed the title of "meanest Mom in the UNIVERSE" on me - mind you, not the world, but the whole universe), and also being a big fan of "getting even" - I say we make Ms. Wurts wait a bit for our reactions - as we all wait for the books! ;-)

Okay - just kidding! I LOVED the book. Terrific story Janny! and "thank you!"


   By Janny Wurts on Saturday, December 04, 2004 - 11:03 am: Edit Post

Thanks guys - for all the comments - of course, if in fact you aren't knocked speechless, and you can't bear to post publicly, there's always the alternative of e mail.

As for getting "even" - wry grin - you get the book as fast as I can POSSIBLY write it. You can read a page a minute, I can only craft this project one word and one concept at a time....

Burns me no end that you can rip through 2 YEARS worth of labor in maybe two days or less. (but in icy fact, that just means that I've done my JOB, muahhhahaha!)


   By Sandtiger on Saturday, December 04, 2004 - 01:45 pm: Edit Post

But that's only the first time...the best part of WoLaS is that there are always re-reads. Each time I read one of the books, I see something new, get something more out of it, and realise just how many links are set early on that I missed the first time.

Re-reads.

Years worth.

And each one enjoyed and savoured.

Jana


   By Leonie on Saturday, December 04, 2004 - 03:37 pm: Edit Post

I've just started the reread - and it's even better the second time round. I have a bit of a tendancy to "inhale" a book (particulary one I've been looking forward to!) on the first read. I am now savouring and thinking on this read.

Janny, the conversations that your characters are having are absolutely fascinating - little hints here and there about deeper meanings, links to previous conversations held by different characters in previous books, and those lovely moments when "the penny drops" and something that's been niggling at the back of my mind suddenly becomes clearer. Truly a work to get the teeth into.

A question for you - SPOILERS!!!!

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Was Sulfin Evend a character who always had a big part to play, or did he just suddenly decide he was going to enlarge his presence? He's a great character. I have loved the way he is so honest about Lysaer (most of the time!) while trying to hang on to his principle of indebtedness to Lysaer, his acknowledgement and understanding about the truth of the situation on Athera, his ruthless practicality and the underlying tie to the land that he is trying to ignore, while also acknowledging it. What a razor's edge he is attempting to sit upon!

Leonie


   By skeoke on Sunday, December 05, 2004 - 12:18 pm: Edit Post

SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS .....


Janny ~ What have you done?!?

Boy, is Dakar in trouble. Myself, I can't count that debt paid in full yet.

Love the bit with the Waystone! That's better than Davien did.

Sulfin Evend is great! {Alright guys, he needs a nickname. I can't keep calling him 'Sulfin Evend', it take too long. But 'Sulfin' alone doesn't seem right. Little help here?} He knows, and he stays. That's priceless. Thank you. At least someone still has compassion.

Alright, Janny, here you go. Honesty before pride. The first few days of reading, I was incensed. This is a sidetrip, not forward progress. A new plot twist initiated and closed. But, now that I've been finished with it for a couple of hours. I can't wait for my husband to finish so I can reread it. There is a lot of forward movement as we go sideways that I gave short shrift.

Can't wait til we pick up the Waystone again.

Seems Fionn won't be dying at sea?

THAT's the way to be a bard, in the south.

Leonie ~ but Asandir gave Sulfin Evend the lie of his indebtedness to Lysaer, if Sulfin Evend heard him, he owes that debt to Asandir. He's with Lysaer now for strict friendship. Maybe.


   By Janny Wurts on Sunday, December 05, 2004 - 12:21 pm: Edit Post

Leonie - thanks for your feedback.

S P O I L E R (sort of, indirectly)
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Lysaer is a very dynamic character - his strengths, played against his flaws, and his denials are not going to make a "tame" situation. Any character next to him (that has a tiny iota of intelligence and honesty) is going to HAVE to choose to respond.

One with the creative intelligence to be a tactical commander can't be a puppet - so any character who had Sulfin Evend's role WHO SURVIVED THE COURSE would naturally have to grow.

Few characters in this series are "spear carriers" - one of the ways you will know which ones aren't - they will have a sense of "past" to them. And this one did, right from the get go.

He had presence, too - ones that come in with that are going to develop (like Raiett did).

But none in Lysaer's inner circle are going to stay inert. They will either go the route of Sulfin Evend - or they will be used (like some you saw meet their downfall.)

Where there is power, there must be responsibility - or something else will step in to claim the primary role that is abdicated.

Asandir said it neatly in Vol I - Power without wisdom eventually destroys itself.

I can't stand a book wherein one side is "good" and has all the intelligence, and one side is "bad" and is run by fools.

Therefore, there will be greedy man, ambitious men, AND loyal, upright, caring characters in all situations.

Sulfin Evend just stepped in to that role, as Diegan's natural successor.


   By Alan on Sunday, December 05, 2004 - 01:16 pm: Edit Post

Janny,


Wasn't it Arithon who said that in reference to Asandir? *curious*


   By Trys on Sunday, December 05, 2004 - 02:18 pm: Edit Post

Note: when posting white space (spaces or carriage returns) is ignored when displayed in the list of search. Only real characters mean anything in HTML. Thus it is important to make sure the first line of a spoiler post has enough non-spoiler info.

No one has cause a problem, this is just a reminder.


   By Leonie on Sunday, December 05, 2004 - 02:59 pm: Edit Post

Thanks for your insights, Janny. I look forward to seeing how SE continues to develop!
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Skeoke "Leonie ~ but Asandir gave Sulfin Evend the lie of his indebtedness to Lysaer, if Sulfin Evend heard him, he owes that debt to Asandir. He's with Lysaer now for strict friendship. Maybe"

Asandir certainly did tell him that, but SE contines to deny it and attribute his ongoing life to Lysaer. It's one of the intriguing things about sulfin Evend - we see him being ruthlessly honest about most of Lysaer's actions and motives, yet is still captivated by the simple charisma of the man and the lengths that Lysaer will go to in order to pursue justice. He has seen and felt firsthand the effects of the Mistwraith's curse, he has felt the tie to the land, been saved by fellowship intervention, and yet still chooses to believe that Lysaer saved his life and that he owes him a debt. It's almost akin to Lysaer's self dellusion about the curse. Although, SF should bring some interesting moments for us to ponder on this subject I suspect!

Leonie


   By Blue on Sunday, December 05, 2004 - 07:44 pm: Edit Post

How about this for shorthand: SE = Sulfin Evend?

We already have such shorthand such as:

F7 = Fellowship of Seven
LoMB = Law of the Major Balance
WoLaS = Wars of Light and Shadow

Nope. Don't have the books yet, just wanting to see what tidbits the rest of you get to savor. I am TRYING to be patient, but there's only so far patience is willing to work with me before it throws up its hands and says, "This girl is HOPELESS!!"


   By George on Monday, December 06, 2004 - 12:42 am: Edit Post

Blue

Since you are looking for tid-bits of information, then look for the following bits:

SPOILERS (galore!)------------>

1. Selidie is really the love child of Sethvir and Enithen Tuer! :-O

2. The Paravians are all on Paradise Island watching Reality TV and have been too busy being voyeurs to worry about Athera! :-O

3. The Necromancers are really "mis-understood" and really do wear their hearts on their sleeves...so to speak :-O

4. Elaira has decided to shake up at Jaelot and has opened up a chain of new age shops specialising in pretty crystals and dream catchers! :-O

5. The Koriani have decided to give up celibacy and join the feminist revival to reclaim their sexuality! The new Prime is none other than Germaine Greer! :-O

6. Tenielle or "Seers Weed" is really marijuana! :-O

I hope that has sated your need for tid-bits.

Enjoy!

GEORGE.


   By Blue on Monday, December 06, 2004 - 02:07 am: Edit Post

Thank you, George!

Does this mean that Our Miss Wurts has really gone off the deep end this time?

By the way, how do you get the "Proud" smilie to show up anyway?


   By George on Monday, December 06, 2004 - 02:38 am: Edit Post

Blue,


Nahhh, Janny hasn't gone off the deep end. I was just trying to throw you off a little!

I got the proud smile quite by accident. I was trying to do a shocked face, but it ended up with a big grin. anyways its the usual colon key but with a capital O...that should do it.


Cheers
George.

PS. Blue, did you at least giggle with some of the spoilers i wrote?


   By Blue on Monday, December 06, 2004 - 05:21 am: Edit Post

I sure did, George. My brother wondered what the jackass-like braying was all about, and I responded that one of the Aussies on the board got me a good one! :-O

P.S. My apologies if I have your nationality wrong!

P.P.S Thanks for telling me HOW you got the PROUD!! :-O


   By Joy on Monday, December 06, 2004 - 08:59 am: Edit Post

I add my heartfelt agreement that TK is a smashing success :-).

I loved reading it and there were plenty of twists (as per usual) and also as is the norm, I had no idea what would happen next. Well, almost no idea...

At the close of a certain scene that left characters paused for the course of a day, I had an awful sinking sensation that went along the lines of "Janny! You WOULDN'T!!!". But, you did!

All I can say is, should Arithon ever climb off the printed page, and momentarily be without his core of compassion, he will kick your butt for all you put him through! Just when you think; 'what more could possibly happen to this guy?' or 'at last, now he gets some peace' you realise this is a Wurts book and whatever made you think the expected would happen??

It's a compliment, believe me :-)

You are incredibly gifted and I'm grateful we get to share and experience the magic you create.

Many thanks
Joy


   By Janny Wurts on Monday, December 06, 2004 - 11:00 am: Edit Post

George - You Asked, the Compete Edition - it's the knife, of course. The Sunloop has the loop at the TOP and it's indescribably beautiful....I'll sketch it someday, perhaps...

Joy - Oh, you did give me a LAUGH!! at the concept of you know Who kicking butt...(I should watch my back??? But then, kick too hard, I'll get damaged, and then No Story...;) orrrr - fix HIS wagon, I could....ever hear the ballad -- Railroad Bill??? It's a wild and woolly about a character who tooks severe issue with his songwriter author, and it will bust your funny bone.


   By George on Monday, December 06, 2004 - 07:10 pm: Edit Post

Blue, you got the nationality right...

I was tempted to write more spoilers, but I didn't want to spoil the story for everyone....

Cheers
George.


   By skeoke on Monday, December 06, 2004 - 09:07 pm: Edit Post

:peek:

:wince:

No shredding? No mincemeat? No castigating?

:whew:

I'll post saner thoughts after a re-read.

Especially about the last ten pages. Or, the end of Arithon's ... well, you know. I don't have the book to hand. (Hubby).

SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS (nothing sane, mind)

That last bit (Blue stop reading - go away) ...

Nope. Better not.

Later.

:slinks out again:


   By Hunter on Monday, December 06, 2004 - 09:24 pm: Edit Post

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The Great Waaaaaayyyyyy (what have you done to my) stone... shrieked Selidie..

So.. after Arithon sent the iyat back down the path into the Great Waystone, the jewel ended up with a citrine heart. So who wears citrine jewellery? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

You are correct, it is Davien.. let's assume that the citrine is indeed caused by Davien and not some freak co-incidence, this is the second time Davien has attacked Selidie via the Waystone. The first time she toasted her hands. Clearly Davien thinks she's not learnt her lesson so perhaps has decided to take more direct action.

Selidie's impression was that she only had to re-align the jewel to re-access her mastery and ascendency.. I'm thinking this is a bit presumptious..


   By Mark Timmony on Tuesday, December 07, 2004 - 12:05 am: Edit Post

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I agree that it's very presumptious!

And who has just been spend a long period of time with Aths Adepts learning all about crystals etc?


   By George on Tuesday, December 07, 2004 - 12:41 am: Edit Post

Good point Mark! I have the sneaking suspicion that we are going to see a show down between Selidie and Elaira and I'm tipping it will be a battle for control of the Waystone.

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I know that Janny wrote that the iyat has become trapped in the waystone, but I wonder if it can become re-animated if someone tries to access the waystone's power. If that is the case, then everytime that Selidie tries to access the waystone, not only does she have to fight off the imprinted memories and maliciousness of the waystone, but the iyat as well! Also it seems that the iyats have a voracious appetite for energy, so theoretically it could become almost invincible on the power of the waystone. That is my understanding...

Janny please feel free to but in at any time and correct my hypotheses! :-)

Cheers
George.


   By George on Tuesday, December 07, 2004 - 12:46 am: Edit Post

And another point....Is it my imagination or has Janny "sexed up" the WoLaS in this latest instalment.

I mean we get a whole lot of references to genitals, breasts and love making. It seems like, the whole series has been so virginal so far, that TK seems a little skanky!!! :o

Cheers
George.


   By Trys on Tuesday, December 07, 2004 - 05:33 am: Edit Post

SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER

George,

This is the first book in quite a while where Arithon and Elaira have been in close physical proximity. :-)

Trys


   By timetaylor on Tuesday, December 07, 2004 - 07:11 am: Edit Post

More questions than answers long post.

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Some interesting theories can be drawn from the latest installment in literary addiction. An iyat is a creation of the great drakes, energy given awarenes but being incomplete they lack the gift memory and are unable to build upon experience. This being the case what will happen to the iyat now that it resides inside a gem that contains all of the memories of the past primes? will it simply go on its merry way or will the experience and knowledge in the stone let it evolve? and if so how different would it be to a mistwraithe? as for the citrine both crystals are forms of fancy quartz this form is called an ametrine the colour could be coincidence but probably not.If arithon can freeze the iyats with his gift of shadow and the sword it is possible the mistwraithes would also succumb considering the similarities he noted in kewar maze. also does anyone know Lirendas ancestary? if the prime was chasing offsring of a cathdein for his talent to replace her where did lirendas talent come from? it seems odd that sevthir spared her and her subordinates when they retrieved the waystone as he could have let them perish in free will under the terms of the compact, also under the terms of the compact couldnt elaira have asked for an intercession from the seven for her child regardless of her subjugated will? it also seems that davien is trying to engineer the downfall of the human race at the same time as the return of the paravians and is influencing arithon as such. ah well the next novel isnt far away, and we can all live in hope that the prime is possessed next time she tries tu use the great waystone.


   By Kam on Tuesday, December 07, 2004 - 07:51 am: Edit Post

I have long held my belief that Janny's characters are all planning some sort of revolt against her. :P

Davien is a puzzle and no mistake. Although we've learnt alot more about his motives in TK but there's still parts that are sketchy. (Is anyone else in love with that scene of Davien and Sethvir arguing?)

George; You're right! I also got that impression while reading TK. I was quite... er... surprised by the change in atmosphere. We've never really had an Arithon that played upon his sexuality strengths like that before. :D

Timetaylor; now there's some interesting theories on that iyat...

I have to get my mind off Davien and onto other things.


   By Janny Wurts on Tuesday, December 07, 2004 - 11:21 am: Edit Post

One side note:

If a natural amethyst is subject to HEAT, it will change to citrine....this happens naturally - it also can be done by "baking" (and is, by some Humans)....

Therefore: the shift in the Waystone at this jointure did not involve Davien.


   By Annette on Tuesday, December 07, 2004 - 01:04 pm: Edit Post

SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER

Finished TK this morning. Bring on SF!!! I want it now!!!!! Unfortunately I know that we have to wait but waiting is sooo painful. It took me so long to finish the book that I can't even remember what happened in the front half. I guess that I will just have to read it again - I know I feel everyone's sorrow on my behalf. This book was fabulous Janny. The ending was so cool. I was feeling like all hope was lost and then our boy pulled his fat out of the fire again. I shouldn't have doubted him for a second. And all that after the humiliation he suffered with Elaira, Dakar, Kharadmon, etc. etc....that was really really cruel Janny. He sure has gone through the ringer - AGAIN! I wonder if he and Elaira will ever get together. You wouldn't leave them dangling forever would you Janny? (no double entendre intended there guys). Anyway I have to go re-read. Thanks for a great book Janny.


   By Hunter on Tuesday, December 07, 2004 - 02:36 pm: Edit Post

Hey Janny,

You just nixed my Davien conspiracy theory! Bummer...

:-)


   By Hunter on Tuesday, December 07, 2004 - 02:44 pm: Edit Post

George - you're not suggesting the cover should have had Arithon and Elaira in a passionate embrace a la Danielle Steele / Mills and Boon type novel.. I don't believe I saw the phrase "heaving bosom" anywhere in the book.. :-)


   By George on Tuesday, December 07, 2004 - 04:33 pm: Edit Post

Hunter- i do remember several references to Glendien's "rounded breast"...

It seems like "spring must be in the air" in Athera....

And what is the deal with Sulfin Evend? It's like he can't wait to get his clothes off at any given moment! He gets it off in front of Enithen Tuer, Asandir, Lysear (a couple of times)....I'm starting to get the feeling he's a little bit of an exhibitionist...


   By Demi on Tuesday, December 07, 2004 - 05:21 pm: Edit Post

I think I want to cry. Truly spoilers are bad, very, very, very, bad...I don't think I will be opening this thread again.

three months, three months, three months, three months...


   By Beth on Tuesday, December 07, 2004 - 11:12 pm: Edit Post

Spoilers keep those of us who are desperately waiting for a chance at the book to keep what little sanity we have until we can read everything.

Sad to hear that yet again Arithon and Elaira aren't together (had great hopes after the last book) and that she is pregnant?
I only hope Arithon is the father. But based on what I read previously, I really didn't think Arithon would do anything that would add a child to the 'game'. Really makes me wonder what goes on in TK.

Beth


   By Kathy Jacobs on Wednesday, December 08, 2004 - 03:30 am: Edit Post

Greetings,

I absolutley loved TK, as always I find Janny's work a treat to read not only for the tale that unfolds but the beauty of the language.
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Would anyone care to speculate on Arithon's greatest desire (or was it heart's desire - I don't have my copy of TK with me)and how a knowledge of necromancy will help him achieve it. This is as per the converstion between Davian and Dakar??


   By michael on Wednesday, December 08, 2004 - 04:43 am: Edit Post

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wow that was insane... thank you very much. i must say many rereads are needed to understand that book.
i was suprised that the unicorns were astonished by our favourite boy. i kinda feel that Davien while wanting to get rid of humanity has taken a different turn with our boy. i feel like he is trying to push him enough so that he evolves beyond what he would have otherwise. Davien seems to be trying to force humanity to either leave athera or become more than a mere shell.
already Arithon has been forced to accept his total. he has done something the unicorns are suprised at..... accepted he is the land and the land him.


   By Auna on Wednesday, December 08, 2004 - 03:07 pm: Edit Post

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I got slightly teary with Davien and Sethvir arguing, since Sethvir is barely hanging in there and Davien appears hard hearted about the situation. I know he's got his own agenda and his ideas might be the better ones, if a bit callous seeming. All I can think of after this scene is that Arithon has his work cut out for him if he's to bring the F7 back together.

I'm actually glad to see some steamy scenes! I just wish Arithon could have been spared that humiliation. I can't wait for the Prime showdown. Dang meddling wench! I figure Elaira has learned about crystals for a reason that the Prime will grow to regret ;)


   By Demi on Wednesday, December 08, 2004 - 04:17 pm: Edit Post

Sorry! I take my word back. I am here to feed off what scraps you guys across the sea have.

What humiliation? what pregnancy? I can only guess that it wasn't Elaira that was in the love seen.

Three months!


   By Izzy on Wednesday, December 08, 2004 - 08:32 pm: Edit Post

Demi,

I'm sorry to say that unless someone else writes it up, I'm not going to tell. I actually wrote a few paragraphs explaining it, but decided not to post it when I re-read what I had written. It so absolutely demeaned Janny's hard work that I could not bring myself to click the post button. I felt dirty.

Sorry again.

Regards,

CJ


   By Hannah on Wednesday, December 08, 2004 - 09:47 pm: Edit Post

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I'm sorry, if you think I can adhere to this code of vague spoiler hints that has gone before me, you're much mistaken. If you haven’t read the book, please just scroll past. You’ll only ruin your experience. I just have to post what I feel, having finished the book, oh, about 15 minutes ago. It took me PRECISELY a week to finish the book, almost right on the nose! (Although, I didn't read the first chapter, because I was in a hurry to get in and had already read that a few times in anticipation of the release.)

Okay, let me recall. I wrote my thoughts down on a notebook as I went along. (all page numbers refer to the UK TP edition)

The first scenes with Arithon and Davien under the mountain were very satisfying. I was afraid Janny would do a whole "Arithon goes into the mountain. Arithon's in the mountain chatting with Davien! [end book] [start book] Arithon is leaving the mountain bidding Davien farewell and thanks for a great time!" So I was relived to actually have the interaction. The discussion centering on page 57 was very informative of Davien's actual thoughts (as much as can be determined of his actual thoughts) on the Compact.

On page 59, which was part of one of the spoilers Janny released to us a while ago, it mentions Arithon dutifully picking up his bread crust. I thought that was a metaphor. But no. He's actually eating a crust of bread. I just thought that was funny, to shatter my preconception there. Um, yeah. It was funny to me!

On page 68, I almost weeped to finally see the depth of Lysaer's grief and still desperate love for Talith. After her death on FP, he had to soldier along without revealing his weakness. So it was a stunning reminder, so far after the fact.

It just occurred to me the irony of Feylind’s “first mate.” And children!! And Fiark, equally leg-shackled and paternal! My, they do grow up fast. ::head shake:: I can’t quite reconcile how they’ve grown. How can people actually desire to go out of their way to meet “the clam”, when to me he’s still just a tow-headed little terror throwing stones.

Glendien. I couldn’t stop myself from cynically writing “Talith 2: The Second Coming” on my notebook. No offense meant to Janny, and no implication meant of character recycling. I have/had an aversion to both women just as people, as their personality is described by the author. But oh my goodness, I was relieved by the way that whole fiasco turned out. Thank god Erlien and Kyrialt weren’t fooled. Actually, Kyrialt is a great character, much love to him. The thought of Arithon completely ruining his good name through the clans, as word passed of a failed rape attempt forced me to throw the book down in anger (on my pillow, no worries) and walk away for a bit.

One word: omhnakedbathwrestlingheehee!! Yeah, I’m immature. I was trying to settle down and absorb the import of that scene, but, well, I’m only a girl.

Speaking of which--Sulfin Evend. I thought my job sucked! I’ve always liked him, and that hasn’t changed. The man has impeccable good sense.

Another scene that moved me to tears was Ellaine’s travel to the Grove, and subsequent reunion with Kevor. Just the peace of the grove, and the sweetness of their discovery… ::sniffle::

Raiett Raven. I can’t believe it. We held such potential for him, and he was just taken so suddenly. We barely knew ya! ::mourn::

Davien. Overall? My fondness for him cooled immensely. The argument with Sethvir was merciless. His interaction with, well, with Dakar or any of the Fellowship set my teeth on edge. I’m trying to be objective and see past his apparent cold-hearted indolence to the other motives that he surely must have. I can’t say I agree with some of the opinions he expressed.

Dakar. Poor man. Seems like I’m the only one who is touched by his continued loyalty and love for Arithon. I really felt for his trepidation reuniting with Arithon in Etarra after the Consumation Scene in the grove (as I shall tactfully refer to it.)

Speaking of which scene! Oh, Janny, I could barely read it! Riding along with Dakar, I felt his aversion to prying both because the scene was masterfully written, as always, and just from my own desire to not want to read something so perfectly personal between Arithon and Elaira become ruined by necessity. But, I felt that outcome was better than the prescient prophecy of Dakar’s at the beginning of the Chapter! I made the mistake of choosing to begin that chapter while at work, so I was running out to my car on break and in between just staring in a daze of disbelief and dismay. (I work on the phone all day, so my mind kept thinking “How can you be asking me such mundane questions about vehicles and money?! Don’t you realize that Elaira could become pregnant? PREGNANT!! DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT THAT WOULD MEAN!” Don’t worry, I’m still employed.) Anyhow. I had to flip ahead to make sure that what I wanted to happen happened. I was surprised and… er, irritated honestly by Elaira’s anger back in the clan lodge tent. Trying not to accuse either of being ungrateful. It’s hard to grasp the level of their relationship together, still unconsummated.

Arithon’s proposal to the s’Brydions: unbelievable! I didn’t think for a moment that they would agree, but I was also saddened that they have not. Yet. This is the only aspect in which I’m impatient for the next book.

The iyat storm out at sea. A long read, and in the end, I felt that Selidie didn’t get nearly the comeuppance she deserved. Damn the woman! Damn her eyes!

Okay, and I was titillated in the final chapter, about the woman whose children were captured by Caolle, but not killed, and how they randomly showed up so many years later. When reading the scene with Jieret and Caolle and the woman, and still nowhere near understanding Janny’s subtlety, I arrogantly assumed the woman was getting set up for a larger purpose, marrying Jieret or somesuch. I was humbled, but wiser, when she just dropped from sight, apparently completely unimportant. But, then, the circle was completed, as the trite saying goes.

I loved the scene in Innish with the whores vs. the naked Sunwheel priests. :D

Jeynsa… I don’t understand her. I’ll reserve judgment.

I love Talvish, he’s teh sex. Ohmigosh, so is Verrain. Woo, Verrain! He finally gets some time to shine. Iannfar! The gangly man-child has grown up nicely!

I don’t mention my thoughts of Arithon, because really he’s too complex to be summed up in a “I thought he was cool in this book!” type of line. I really see him more as a Force that effects the lives of the other characters. He’s rather unknowable, but can only be understood by looking at the results of his actions. If that makes any sense.

Overall (that’s right, I appear to be reaching a conclusion!), I am surprised, thinking back, at how short of a timeframe the book actually covered, and how there were just a handful of actual major scenes, but each one took a hefty chunk of book. All my favorite characters got a chance to shine! I mean, really, who wasn’t involved in an important aspect at some point in the story? Maenol?

I enjoyed the sense of completion and balance of having the book both begin and end with Davien and Arithon (well, though, I did skip the first chapter, so I guess technically it didn’t begin there except in my mind). It just bookended everything so neatly, so that you can take the first conversation in one hand and the last in the other, and think about everything that happened in between and understand what has changed from beginning to end.

Janny, if you really were wanting to get some (well-deserved, for your mammoth efforts!) in depth feedback, and some reflection on the book, I hope this well suffice, for my part. I just feel better having gotten that off my chest!

And if any of you are reading this that haven’t gotten the book, for shame! I make no apologies; you were forewarned.

Hannah


   By Demi on Wednesday, December 08, 2004 - 10:54 pm: Edit Post

This is so much better. I still don't understand crud about what you are saying but it's still cool

I have an exam tomorrow morning but I'm ok despite tons of reading left to do.

Three months!


   By Beth on Wednesday, December 08, 2004 - 11:43 pm: Edit Post

Ok. Very confused but I still don't think it will ruin any of Janny's book when I can eventually pick a book up. God, Im more excited about getting TK in Feb then my Birthday and V-day which are both in Feb as well.

Nice to know I will be able to reread TK lots of times before SF comes out. I HATE waiting for books to come. It is particularly bad since I don't have anything to read right now. I have reread lots of books recently and I can't reread anything right now. And nothing comes out till the end of January. (Anne Bishops next Dark Jewels book is out then).


Beth


   By Janny Wurts on Thursday, December 09, 2004 - 12:38 pm: Edit Post

Hannah - thank you! Very helpful. I appreciate your time! I took alot of "chances" with this book, not least, the symbolic aspects of it.

SPOILER POSSIBLE - beware SPOILER!....scroll past as warned....




(The mentioned scene between Sulfin Evend and Lysaer,) seen on "one level" can be read in one narrow way -- yet -- it is not a physical scene in its implication, one bit. The camouflage (clothing) is off the ideas and the characters...and the conversation and revelation, and the honesty of their interaction, therefore, stripped utterly naked.

It was a complete leveling of the field, precisely as stated. Lysaer issued challenge: he IS 'justice' in accord with his gift in that moment. Sulfin Evend accepted the terms without reservation.

I do nothing without purpose.

If this had been a "physical" scene, you'd have been given that at ONLY that level. This book, as a whole, has more areas that risk being interpreted at the least discerning/most common denominator, even though I made every effort to widen the imposed boundaries of ofttimes rigid ideas. (bare skin = sexual context)

So I appreciate seeing the various ways in which different readers make the scenes
'theirs' - it helps me to know in more clarity what may need to be 'restated' later, in broader context - so that the rest of the series can more clearly unfold with the intricacy of its full design.

There is no judgement call, here - you will see what you want or expect, to experience....until another twist or turn of the story rips off the mask you were wearing...

On another count --

I wonder, a bit - if anyone's "opinion" of Asandir shifted, through this one....it was a serindipity that discussion of this character arose, Exactly as I was writing the unfolding scenes at Althain Tower.


   By Blue on Thursday, December 09, 2004 - 02:04 pm: Edit Post

Spoiler alert, or maybe not.

Okay, I don't have the book in hand (WAAAHH! and other assorted whiny noises.) As I see it though, if I am curious enough to read posts in this topic, it is MY decision to do so; Hannah has it right. Put the SPOILER warnings on top, anyone foolish enough to peek in deserves what they get.

I will not let the surprise get away from me. I can read someone else's response and interpretation of what is before them, but I have seen in the past that my own interpretation and response is not necessarily the same thing.

It is almost like the old story about the five blind men encountering the elephant, each touching a different part, and insisting that HE knows the truth of the animal, even though he cannot see it. (Of course, in that story, I always felt sorry for the guy holding the tail!) :-O

Above, someone asked about Arithon and necromancy and his heart's desire. I think I can venture an opinion [take it with as big a grain of salt as you need, I don't mind!] on the subject, based on years of D&D gaming.

Necromancy is "death magic." The practitioner, called a necromancer, is studying death, and the ability to control spirits of those who have gone on, or even such things as poltergeists. The magics they use are highly dangerous, and not exactly the work of good people, though there are exceptions.

Arithon has been trained to heed the source of power that adheres to the LoMB. Thus, he only understands death and spirits as those things apply under LoMB. HOWEVER, the entities that make up the Mistwraith are somehow circumventing the LoMB, and skewing the natural rhythms of death and spirituality, hence the paradoxes of the curse these lost souls cast that shackles himself and Lysaer.

Were I a gambling woman, I would say that Arithon is seeking to learn a necromancer's disciplines, and see if there is a way he can figure out HOW these lost souls went awry, and help them. He probably has a fair idea of what has happened, but like the scholar Mak and the other s'Ahelas mages raised him to be, wants to understand it fully. The entities that comprised the Mistwraith "were once human" which means that they evolved/devolved somehow from human. Janny - as Sethvir back in Etarra, freeing Lysaer of possession - is VERY deliberate in her choice of words!

Anyway, that is MY spin on it. Though knowing Janny, we WON'T know until the last sentence of the very last volume of this series, and even then, she'll probbably turn all of our expectations squarely on their ears!

By the way, Janny, that IS a compliment, however back handed it seems. Please don't ever lose the ability to surprise the daylights out of us!

P.S. I know MM is up to their eyebrows in getting TK ready for the US market. Do they have any plans to release anything on audio CD? My bro is one person interested. I wouldn't mind it myself, but I would insist on unabridged.


   By George on Thursday, December 09, 2004 - 05:44 pm: Edit Post

Janny,

I have just finished the book, after reading it for almost two weeks. I've been crawling through it carefully as I catch the bus to and from work each day.

It was well worth the effort, and I think the book was well written. I further understand your previous quandry of splitting ST in to two volumes, as the depth and breadth of writing in this current installment was great. I can only look forward with much excitement to ST. :-)

I must re-read your point regarding the examination of Asandir, as I do not believe it made as much an impact on me as the unveiling of the character of Davien did.

In truth, I was shocked by Davien's stance on the issue of humanity as I was lulled in to a belief (in reading the prior novels), that Davien would have wanted to preserve humanity, but on HIS terms. This is obviously not the case given Davien's conversation with Sethvir at Althain. Touche Janny! You came out of left field with that one!

As far as the issue of writing in metaphors is concerned, all i can say is that the book is full of them and I agree with your comments concerning the discerning reader. HOWEVER, as previously posted (by me), i did notice that this installment did have a more "fleshy" feel in the earlier chapters, particularly with regard to Glendien, Feylind and her mate, the prancing harlots and several other references to that form of fleshy sexuality. In that light, the scene with Lysaer and Sulfin may have seemed a little gratuitous to the non-discerning.

Without diminishing the foregoing, the scene of Elaira and Arithon on the "grass knoll" :-) was absolutley beautiful and I suspect was heavily drawn upon from forms of Tantric and Taosit sex?

In any event Janny, what can we say except that you have honoured your faithful readers with a QUALITY piece of literature. The time and patience that you have expended on the novel shows...GREATLY. Kudos to you and keep them comming.

Cheers.
George.

PS. for any reader wishing to read a series of novels containing metaphors and hidden commentary on society, I suggest you read the Earthsea Trilogy by Ursual Le Guin. You will be pleasantly suprised if your scratch past the veneer of fantasy. :-)


   By Auna on Thursday, December 09, 2004 - 07:30 pm: Edit Post

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I never felt that the nakedness of Sulfin and Lysaer was anything sexual, but rather a stripping away of trappings that would hide total honesty.

This book was more clear to me (so I think anyway!) than any other book so far. Either I'm used to the writing style, or things were explained better. I still have some points in other books I'm totally confused about even after multiple rereadings.

Asandir... I didn't shift my view of him and everything he did made complete sense as far as saving the Ath's adept and risking himself to save Athera. I found it very disturbing and interesting to see Davien's viewpoint of Asandir as the perfect model of heroism and almost a yes-man to Sethvir's wish. He seemed to have contempt for Asandir's 'blind' devotion. I think I'll need to see more of Davien's views before I begin to shift my own feelings towards the fellowship we've already met and learned to respect/love.

If anything, I'd say I'm wary of Davien and his seeming disrespect of the hard work that the other fellowship members do to save Athera and the humans. I would have agreed with Sethvir about letting humans stay which probably colors my opinion at this stage. So right now, I don't like Davien all that much and see him as more a perhaps necessary cattle prod than anything else.


   By Hannah on Thursday, December 09, 2004 - 07:45 pm: Edit Post

Janny,
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Oh don't worry. That wasn't my primary reaction to the Lysaer/SE bath confrontation. I got over the little giggle allowance real quick. I appreciate the symbolism you describe that you put into that scene. It went completely over my head, though I'm sure you can understand that the first read is a quick and thrilled reading of "What happens next?!" whereas my next rereads will be more of a "What is really happening here?"

It has been previously noted in the course of re-reads that the Atherans don't seem to share the same sense of scandal about nudity as earthlings. Or maybe it's just me--maybe I'm too modest. ;)

I enjoyed the scenes with SE and Asandir at Althain, I enjoyed the fact that it was specifically Asandir that met with the Lord Commander, given the fact that Asandir is probably the one F7 that Sulfin Evend has most reason to fear/mistrust. The interaction was quite enlightening.

I do confess that I don't precisely understand the nature of the sacrifice that the Adept was prepared to make for Asandir when he was battling the wraiths. That scene demands a closer inspection I guess.

Oh, on a related note! Was the triplet of Isfarenn's successor an important plot point to remember, or just a wee snippet to titillate us readers and make us smile? Well, I guess you couldn't say unless it was the latter.

Hannah


   By Hannah on Thursday, December 09, 2004 - 07:54 pm: Edit Post

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I forgot to say, Anna reminded me, that the fear I was trying to allay was this: I was NOT trying to piece together some twisted 'Shipper relationship between Lysaer and Sulfin Evend, a la Frodo and Sam (per some LotR "fans"). Lord knows if someone wanted to go through the book and start pairing up people, there would be no end to the mayhem caused. Arithon/Dakar, Lirenda/Elaira, Sethvir/Asandir... ohmigosh. I have to stop. I'm sorry if this offends anyone here but I am NOT fond of slashy fanfic in any fandom where the author of such fic is INTERPRETING that the author clearly was insinuating a homosexual relationship, but didn't want to come out and say it because of [insert random reason]. I don't understand how slash became such a fad. ::shrug:: But that's neither here nor there. I know Janny would not tolerate such slashing of her work. Got off on a wee tangent there.

Um. Yeah, so I wasn't insinuating anything sexual in the nakedmanbathwrestling. It was just an... interesting set-up for an intense scene.

Like Anna, I must have settled down to Janny's writing style, because I can actually focus on paragraphs of exposition instead of just wanting to skip ahead to the snappy dialogue. Thus, I really understood this book that much better.

Hannah


   By Trys on Friday, December 10, 2004 - 05:42 am: Edit Post

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quote:

I never felt that the nakedness of Sulfin and Lysaer was anything sexual, but rather a stripping away of trappings that would hide total honesty.


BINGO!!! That was exactly my take on the scene. The stripping away of the clothing evened the playing field between the two. Unfortunately Sulfin Evend pushed just a little too far.

Does anyone else thing that the Curse is ramping things up now that one half of the target has 'mastery' over it?


quote:

Was the triplet of Isfarenn's successor an important plot point to remember, or just a wee snippet to titillate us readers and make us smile?


When has Janny tossed anything into these books... especially in the triplets... that aren't "important plot points". :-)

Trys


   By Hellcat on Friday, December 10, 2004 - 08:53 am: Edit Post

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quote:

I do confess that I don't precisely understand the nature of the sacrifice that the Adept was prepared to make for Asandir when he was battling the wraiths. That scene demands a closer inspection I guess ---- Hannah




My take on this: Its not that the Adept was prepared to make a sacrifice that was the problem, but that by her helping Assandir she would have come into contact with the evil that was the Mistwraithe and that COULD NEVER be allowed. The Adept channels the Prime Vibration that is Ath if that channel became sullied nothing could never restore the prime vibration to purity. It would be like losing the concept of good or love or purity. A world where you would no longer be able to touch that would become truly rotten.

I also think that this is a subtle hint as to why the Paravians left. Maybe they could not risk possession by the wraiths, and the thus letting Ath’s promise of redemption would be sullied. They could not encounter the hatred incarnate in the Mistwraith without absorbing the destructive emotion and becoming subject to it. Only those that already have the potential for hate and destruction (aka humanity) can withstand that force, because we have encountered and dealt with that potential within ourselves. (see also Altheil and how the sword is supposed to be used. Very different from a normal sword)

Hellcat


   By Trys on Friday, December 10, 2004 - 11:41 am: Edit Post

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I think the nature of the sacrifice that the Adept nearly made is simpler than that. Had she involved herself she would no longer by an Adept... no longer have that unsullied connection to Ath... and so Athera would be diminished by her loss.

Trys


   By Hellcat on Friday, December 10, 2004 - 11:56 am: Edit Post

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If so then why did not Assandir accept her sacrifice? Surely under the LoMB she is allowed to offer herself? I need to start my re-reading but IIRC Asandir's working would have re-captured the wraiths and removed the possiblity of the wraiths ever reaching Athera. Given how dangerous to the WHOLE of Athera the wraiths are I would have said the freely given scarifice of ONE would have been worth the price. That's why I think there is something more.

Hellcat


   By Auna on Friday, December 10, 2004 - 01:12 pm: Edit Post

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Asandir is bound by dragon oath to preserve Athera. Aths adepts are a part of Aths mysteries, as such he is dragon bound to preserve her intact and not risk her being diminished or possibly dying. Also, given the state of Aths adepts, they can't afford any losses. He makes an apologetic reference to his dragon binding to the adept when she seems hurt that he rejected her sacrifice. Hence, this is how I interpreted it.


   By Trys on Friday, December 10, 2004 - 03:19 pm: Edit Post

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Auna,

That is similar to my take on the situation. Remember what happened in the one grove when Kevor became an Adept?

Hellcat,

I agree that there is something more to it but I don't think it's tied up with the wraiths. I think it's tied up with what Ath's Adepts really are... and I don't think we've seen all there is to them yet.

Trys


   By Hannah on Friday, December 10, 2004 - 09:20 pm: Edit Post

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Very interesting interpretations all, I'll enjoy going back to reread with these thoughts in mind!

Hannah


   By Janny Wurts on Saturday, December 11, 2004 - 09:59 am: Edit Post

George - just a whisper of a side note: I do not follow or study either the Tantra or the Tao.


   By starstorm on Saturday, December 11, 2004 - 02:06 pm: Edit Post

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Oh... my! Wow! (...and other exclamations of drained satisfaction!)

I just finished the last hundred or so pages last night, so I really haven’t absorbed it all yet. I honestly think it’s going to take a few days to let everything settle, although reading through this whole spoiler topic has helped settle my thoughts (after avoiding it like the plague until now!).

Janny, thank you AGAIN for taking such care in your crafting of this story. I’ve heard people complain about your visual style as too wordy, but it is just such a joy to read, and part of what makes you one of my favorite authors. And as much as I hate waiting for the next book, I do appreciate the time that goes into the creation of the end product. It helps me remain patient :-)



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...I can't wait to find out whether Sulfin Evend and Arithon arrive at Sanpashir together - and if they do, what the outcome is. – Leonie



That was one of the first things that crossed my mind when I reached the end of the book. SE has become one of my favorite characters with this book, and I can’t help but think that a meeting between those two would only make him more determined to help Lysaer, even if he doesn’t become a direct supporter of Arithon (he seems just stubborn enough — as with his opinion of Asandir — to reject total acceptance). I think he’s wise enough to know—after several literally painful lessons - how carefully he’ll have to tread, but like someone else mentioned in this thread, I can unfortunately see him being condemned as a traitor and practitioner of dark magic.


The "taming" of the iyats was just brilliant.



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The Great Waaaaaayyyyyy (what have you done to my) stone... shrieked Selidie. – Hunter



<lol> “Alt, damn you, Alt!” Classic... utterly classic! And despite the as-yet-unseen repercussions of the changed Waystone, SO much less than she deserved, IMHO!



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…the Koriani are REALLY a bunch of COWS/TROLLS! – George



You can say THAT again, and double it for Morriel/Selidie!
THE SCENE with Arithon and Elaira was just so incredibly painful to read, knowing that whether or not Dakar reached them in time, their brief peace and moment of joy was going to be shattered. That was just so heartbreaking.



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I made the mistake of choosing to begin that chapter while at work, so I was running out to my car on break and in between just staring in a daze of disbelief and dismay. (I work on the phone all day, so my mind kept thinking “How can you be asking me such mundane questions about vehicles and money?! Don’t you realize that Elaira could become pregnant? PREGNANT!! DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT THAT WOULD MEAN!” – Hannah



Aaah... Hannah! I can’t imagine trying to concentrate on work throughout that chapter!



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Does anyone else thing that the Curse is ramping things up now that one half of the target has 'mastery' over it? – Trys



Here I was, wondering why Lysaer was losing it just at the mere MENTION of Arithon’s name, but I do think maybe you’ve hit it squarely on the head!

Such as they are, those are my initial thoughts. Back to lurking! :-O

~ Anna


   By Hunter on Saturday, December 11, 2004 - 09:13 pm: Edit Post

SPOILER

On my third read..

In the first robust discussion between Lysaer and Sulfin Evend, Sulfin Evend mentions that there is scholarly opinion that if the compact is broken and the mysteries sundered, then Ath's Adepts would simply fade away, like the Paravians. Whilst perhaps inelegantly put, if Ath's mysteries were to cease, then the Ath's Adepts, at least as they are on Athera, would also cease to exist..


   By skeoke on Sunday, December 12, 2004 - 07:30 pm: Edit Post

Spoilers ... etc.

All these happy thoughts about SE and A in Sanpashir...

What is Arithon's reaction going to be to the man that cut out Jieret's tongue???

If they even meet.

They need to be allies, but, dang, there's a bit of a stumbling block in the way.


   By Kathy on Sunday, December 12, 2004 - 10:37 pm: Edit Post

S
P
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Sheoke

You don't think that Arithon's compassion would allow him to forgive? Would he be understanding of where SE was then and able to recognise the changes that SE has undergone? (Yep there is a "bit" of a stumbling block!!) Would Arithon want them to be allies, although this had changed in TK he has been reluctant to bind allies to him in the past, would he not recognise the "spot" he would place SE in?

It's just a thought! (or 2)


   By Deborah Eddy on Wednesday, December 15, 2004 - 05:24 am: Edit Post

I bought TK last night and immersed myself in it - am a fast reader so have had a complete read, plus a re-read of several scenes.

I really hope that at some point Arithon and Elaira can show those conniving bitches whatfor... Selidie/Morriel deserves a major come-uppance.

I felt so sorry for both Arithon and Elaira when they were so rudely disturbed but I can accept the necessity of why it had to happen. It'll be interesting to see how things go between them after this as Arithon's not likely to want to complete their union with that mark on her body that will mess them both up so badly and permanently. The sooner she can get rid of that sigil the better - maybe if Elaira and Arithon can do something about cleansing the Waystone then the spell can be removed from her?


   By Neil on Wednesday, December 15, 2004 - 07:10 am: Edit Post

It's wonderful to Arithon back in action in TK and still learning/searching for(and more importantly finding) new answers to the "same old questions".

I was touched by his response to Fionn's question concerning the killing of clan children in COTM: something like 'all that I was with the wisdom I had couldn't keep them alive'. Very very poignant.

I felt for Braggen also returning and having to explain why he's back and not red-beard.

I felt also for Asandir when he refers to "hearts of babies", etc. and that this is *really* done but NOT by the F7! The F7 got a real raw deal when the dragons cruised into town... a thankless job being F7 member)


   By HJ on Friday, December 17, 2004 - 06:43 pm: Edit Post

Janny, I need to ask a question.

SPOILER!! SPOILER!!

I've just finished reading "Bind", where Arithon has finally subdued the iyats with his shadow mastery. Without intending any presumption or making any sweeping statement, I think it's fair to say that these books are your lifes work, and Arithon is the main hero of the saga - an amazing character, amongst many amazing characters in all of your works. Speaking specifically of Arithon, you have worked with and lived with him for so long, and if he were a real person he would be someone to be totally in awe of. You must feel some affection for him....how can you bear to put him through all of these horrendous ordeals? He is so slight and so vulnerable, and yet so strong (strong enough...?) it must wring you out to write passages like the one I've just read, and Vastmark and the Kewar Tunnel experience. How do you make Arithon so real without giving yourself nightmares about the way you treat him?!?!

I'm totally drained having just read this passage, I can't imagine how you might have felt having just written it!

Cheers

HJ


   By Janny Wurts on Saturday, December 18, 2004 - 12:25 pm: Edit Post

HJ - You asked.

It's not easy. Note: I did Hell's Chasm after Peril's Gate.

If I were writing a linear story, I could not do this. You're right. However, this is not a linear tale, nor will the character develop in a 'linear' fashion - as the story progresses, the way events are portrayed is not 'all there is.'

True Epic fantasy defines the way societ(ies) view life and choices. This one will take that from every angle and depth. Humanity on this planet has made Necessity the mother of invention. We regard suffering as "challenge" and ennobilize it, looking for the 'greater good' - and finding that, without looking further, we've made that "justification' the most beaten path to uplifting change - until so MANY of us seek our challenges in the depths -- Our defining moments are TOO often sought in the most acute conditions.

And since we are driven to grow, evolve, and redefine ourselves constantly, we "create" more suffering for this signal purpose. Sadly.

There ARE other ways - past question the road not taken is the most untested one - but to create a life without 'drama' to drive us (as people) to exercise the utmost of our human gifts and therefore to change -- it's the overlooked direction. How do we choose to find our true selves? How do we "strip" off the dross and arrive at our heroic humanity?

And in so many cases, the "scoffed at" direction is the one that has no backdrop of stress.

This story will not tolerate the "ambivalence" of that view....it will show the cost and penalty of that sort of world view - the cost of the "reward" as it were, AND - AND ... its opposite.

Yet for the opposite to have its full value, the beaten path must be "tested and tried" first - with all of its flawed logic and pain. Jieret's path is the most common. And the known route that has been venerated by history and collective attention, to the detriment of other examples. EVEN our Ghandis have stood tall and shone in times of war....our mother Teresa's, against backdrops of suffering....why? WHY? This can't be All.

Stormed Fortress will, in a headlong and determined way, challenge that stance, and begin to unveil the less traveled concepts.

So - your answer - if I had no purpose, I couldn't. Past question, as ME, I COULD not. When the primary thrust of this story was conceived, Arithon was the "character" who stepped forward to take that role. His "character" qualities made the "choices" at each pass - he is Named 'Fate's Forger' for a core reason -- and this story is really just hitting its primary stride.


   By HJ on Saturday, December 18, 2004 - 03:11 pm: Edit Post

Thanks you for your answer, Janny. Goodness, you always give food for thought and the implications for the remainder of the saga are enormous. What an experience reading your books is.

In awe,

HJ


   By Phil on Tuesday, December 21, 2004 - 07:25 pm: Edit Post

Well after ending up with two copies of Traitor's Knot I have finally finished one of them.

Janny - it was Fantastic!!!!

Just wish I had enough time to go back to the beginning and find out where this great character called Sulfin Evend came from. I wasn't expecting to enjoy any of the Lysaer chapters but he made them a true pleasure.