Archive through January 29, 2005

Janny Wurts Chat Area: Arc 3: Alliance of Light: Fugitive Prince, Grand Conspiracy; Peril's Gate & Traitor's Knot: Traitors Knot Discussions: Spoiler Topics: The People of Tysan : Archive through January 29, 2005
   By Hellcat on Wednesday, January 26, 2005 - 10:35 am: Edit Post

I'm wondering what the common people of Tysan now think of Lysaer's Religon/Government. Lysaer publicly announces that MOST of his inner circle are corrupt, arrests them in public and they disapear into his dungeons never to be seen again. He immeadiately leaves Tysan, with no queen, no regency. The people of Tysan MUST be begining to question his care for them, he's behaving like Richard Coeur De Lion, bleeding his country dry for his crusade, with no results.

I wonder if he will be able to raise yet another army? Especially to attack those who sheltered his Queen from his corrupt cabal. Is it really justice or vengence he is meeting out here?


   By PurplePenny on Wednesday, January 26, 2005 - 04:10 pm: Edit Post


he's behaving like Richard Coeur De Lion

...who had a brother who is generally reviled by history despite the fact that he was, in many ways, a better king. Hmmm .. come to think of it John is usually depicted as being smaller and darker than Richard.

Unfortunately since many in England still regard Gare de Lyon* as a hero maybe there isn't any hope for the people of Tysan either.

* 1066 And All That.

   By Blue on Wednesday, January 26, 2005 - 04:51 pm: Edit Post

Spoilers Reliops

It is also possible that the people, having been suckered this long, think that their hero has already meted out justice, and is on his way to rescue the fair Queen, and take arms against those responsible for aiding and abetting the corrupt members of the council.

I wonder what the commoners make of the fire that swept the palace, when Lysaer [out of their sight, of course] threw off his light and burned those "dead" guards when they provoked the Curse just by mentioning Arithon?

Is it just me, or has the curse somehow gotten touchier in Lysaer? This is not the first time that mere mention of Arithon has set off the curse. Remember when he was grieving for Kevor, and Jeriayish [sp?] mentioned Lysaer's campaign against Arithon? He lost it there, too, in that he instantaneously gave up his grief to throw himself back into the fight.

   By Trys on Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 05:21 am: Edit Post



It's not just you. I think the Curse is getting more intense, in both Lysaer and Arithon. But in the latter case he can now master with music... but what happens if he gets in a situation where he has no time or insufficient time to thread the necessary melodies to control it?


   By Hunter on Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 06:01 am: Edit Post

I too am curious as to how the Alliance itself can continue when all the Alliance inner sanctum have now been killed or discredited. Who is actually running the place? Or is the Religion of Light now self-perpetuating and requires no leaders?

When Lysaer tried to kill Sulfin Evend in the bath with stone knife, it is perhaps one of the first times in recent books that Lysaer has actually started to think, or at least, question what is happening to him.

   By Neil on Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 07:06 am: Edit Post

I guess where population awareness is concerned (using 80!:20 rule..) 80% are too busy with their day-to-day lives and won't care or can't see all the detailed stuff that we, the reader, get to see.

The money/power in towns is in the hands of the trader leaders(?) These are the leaders and their interests go against charter law...the public need to work/eat so the choice is 1) follow and eat or 2) not follow and starve I imagine...the clan/F7 don't have a duty to feed the populace :-)

Lysaer is still in a position to encourage to gain town support (Etarra + necromancer disaster is blamed on Arithon...)

Yep Hunter. Lysaer allowed Sulfin the opinion (in 1 chapter at least...) that he might be cursed. *That* was interesting. Shame it didn't last... Is it only the biedar knife that stopped the curse or does Lysaer currently still have an occasional moment "freedom" to choose away from the curse? Based on the "erosion" of self over time I'm not sure...


My current question is the s'Brydians. They are "first rate strategists". If a renowned masterbard, initate, seer tells you to walk'd be silly not to...they are stubborn; not guess is that most will escape but Alestron could used as a target anyway => to buy Arithon/clans some time with some other lose ends?!?

   By Elaine Thompson on Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 01:45 pm: Edit Post

I've been thinking along those lines, too, altho the scene with the reluctant mayor early in PG could have been designed to remove such hope. He's reluctant, but a few minutes of Lysaer's charisma and he's a convert. Still, Lysaer and his supporters' record now is pretty bad, and several someones in power in the towns ought to be noticing. My hope is that as SF is the end of the Alliance of Light arc, Lysaer will have less power at the end, there will no longer *be* an Alliance, and not because they win, but because Arithon pulls something really clever and Lysaer's corruption becomes visible enough to enough people. Maybe even himself (altho, that I doubt).

Neil wonders if Lysaer has any moments of freedom from the curse. Not many. He came close in the encounter with Ellaine and Kevor at the hostel. He had a minute or so, that we see through Sulfin Evend's eyes. But he can't make the right choice, the curse works against all that is Ath, so he rejects them and is even more hostile to such forces than before.

I finsihed PG thinking he needed a trip through Kewar or the equivalent. Even more, now.

What would Paravian justice *be* for him, anyway? They are understanding and compassionate. I'd been wondering why such people forged swords, and now Janny has answered - the swords aren't meant for standard human-expected-use. The Paravians didn't destroy the critters that the F7 are keeping under control, they kept the powers up that kept the critters from doing damage. Would they heal and forgive Lysaer, do you think, (after confrontation with all his sins), or ....?

And I want to see what becomes of Sulfin Evend. I expect him to have an important role.

   By Neil on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 04:01 am: Edit Post

I feel the Fellowship strands from COTM still hold. Lysaer still unites the towns of 4 kingdoms. I think the religion of the light will stick around for a while...but who knows?!?

The town humans aren't key to the future fate of Athera...Arithon is. I'm still confused why the F7 would be forced to destroy humanity. Why would the drakes/paravians distinguish between humans that respect the compact and those that do not? And wouldn't humans survive through the west gate? Why would the F7 be obliged to destroy them?

Sulfin Evend is the "star" of TK. He really jumps off the page. Enithen Tuer's prediction was that he was in for a hard time...even Asandir advised him to walk away :-)

Lysaer no longer has the right to live on Athera / F7 intercession. Since the paravians are unlikely to throw him into outer space where will they send him? Does the East or North gate have people that have been cast out of the compact before? Is Lysaer the first person to be outcast?

   By Elaine Thompson on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 02:46 pm: Edit Post

The religion of light sticks around, yes, we know that from the prologue of the first book. Doesn't mean it's as big as it is now. It might be a minor blip in the Atheran milieu with most of the population following Atheran-based belief and respecting Paravians etc. When/if the Paravians come back, it would be shocking (IMHO) if people didn't turn to them, given what they are. A large part of the current problems are due to them being gone for 500 years, so even the believers are taking everything basically on faith. That comes up in the encounter with the female caithden in ... wherever it was [book is with my husband, now], where Arithon gets news of the necromancer threat. She doesn't understand the threat to Ath & the Paravians, or why Arithon must deal with it. or wtte.

I do notice that the F7 doesn't seem to be around by the time of the prologue (or someone could have just asked them about events of the time instead of having to scry for information) and have wondered if we're going to see their freedom, or at least how they might get it off-stage/later. Davien gives me the impression of wanting to be free of the drake's binding.

Why would the drakes/paravians distinguish between compact-respecting humans & those who don't? Those who do will dwell in harmony with the original inhabitants. Those who don't, won't. Isn't that enough? There are enough problems with the drakespawn, they don't need townies always messing up the wildlands, etc. Humanity doesn't have the resources & knowledge to get off the planet by spaceship, anymore - even if the F7 were willing to go that route, I get the impression it would screw up the Atheran forces. Why not send them through gates, I don't know. Because they could come back? Wouldn't get them far enough - the splinter worlds are linked to Athera, after all. I don't know.

   By Technetus on Saturday, January 29, 2005 - 02:20 am: Edit Post


For me, there's more to the Alestron situation than that: there's also Fionn Areth's birth augury.

To die in fire, this he appears to have been spared when Arithon snatched him out of Jaelot.

To die over salt water, Selidie's fiend storm could well have caused, especially as Dakar had a premonition of armed attack and casualties. Again, thanks to Arithon (who would have fallen as well, by the augury) he survived one brush with this fate.

Living to old age was the fourth possibility (listed third here), and not a pleasant one for Athera. Fionn's death somehow has a bearing on keeping the Mistwraith controlled.

The other was to die "landbound, in crossed steel and smoke". At last word, Fionn Areth is heading to Alestron with Vhandon and Talvish. Given the prevailing circumstances, this does not bode well. Arithon is also supposed to be betrayed somehow if this comes to pass.

Of course, given the twistiness of the story, Arithon's double is just as likely to die from getting too drunk then tripping and falling into a solstice bonfire as he would in battle at Alestron. He hasn't been "saved" for certain from any of these fates. Such is the series; ain't it grand? ;)