Archive through January 25, 2005

Janny Wurts Chat Area: Arc 3: Alliance of Light: Fugitive Prince, Grand Conspiracy; Peril's Gate & Traitor's Knot: Traitors Knot Discussions: Spoiler Topics: A few amusing thoughts after reading TK: Archive through January 25, 2005
   By Hunter on Monday, January 24, 2005 - 06:40 am: Edit Post

SPOILERS

"Not to kill" is probably somewhere on Arithon's wish list but I doubt it's the number one thing.

There are two obvious candidates:
1. to be free to spend his time with Elaira
2. to be free to play music to his heart's content

however both of these are corollories to what I think is his heart's desire - which is to be free of his obligations as Crown Prince of Rathain. The very first entry of Arithon and Lysaer into Athera had Asandir being very cagey about the plans for the two princes. Both Lysaer and Arithon are still very much products of their childhood which is being repeated - s'Ilessid chasing down s'Ffalenn piracy in the belief the s'Ffalenn are evil. Arithon makes it abundantly clear that he would do anything to avoid assuming the obligations of another kingdom.

To pursue No 1. and 2 above, he must first somehow escape the demands of his kingdom. That is my view of his heart's desire.


   By max on Monday, January 24, 2005 - 07:31 am: Edit Post

Yes... I am pretty sure most of us would rather lay around with our lovers and pluck out chords on our lyrantheguitarpianoluteharp. But ya know the rent has to be paid and work to be done. I definitely want to come back as someone's dog or cat and stretch and sleep my day away!! [grinning at ya]:}


   By Elaine Thompson on Monday, January 24, 2005 - 10:37 am: Edit Post

Spoilers & all that...


THe wish of Arithon's heart -

Remember, this is Davien speaking to Dakar. It's not what Arithon himself might describe as the wish of his heart, but what Davien heard from him. There's only one thing we've seen in their interactions that would fit, and that's the wish not to kill. It's also the only thing that suits the rest of Davien's speech which is that (somehow) facing down the necromancers as he does with Paravian grace will give him what is necessary to accomplish that. I think it will be somewhat as the discovery of Alithiel's purpose gave him other ways to deal with iyats & drakespawn.


   By Andrew Ginever on Monday, January 24, 2005 - 02:57 pm: Edit Post

Spoilers Spoilers.........

To me, Arithon has three hearts desires:

To be with Elaira, "even if the whole world burns" ,to use Dakar's words. (Selidie must be rubbing her hands together with glee)

To stop Lysaer's religion from fracturing Ath's truth at any cost, even his life (from what he admitted to Erlien)

To save Lysaer from the Mistwraith's curse, if he can (evidenced by his choices not to confront his half-brother to date, made of his own free will to limit the effect of the curse).

As to his priority between the three, I wouldn't want to speculate.


   By Hannah on Monday, January 24, 2005 - 09:04 pm: Edit Post

Elaine,

I think often Janny's titles have more than one interpretation (well, the later ones at least--I think Warhost of Vastmark can pretty much only be interpreted one way). I think a big part of this title is in regards to Sulfin Evend, who would be considered traitorous by a lot of people (maybe even himself?), and the knot his contrary vows are now going to tie himself in.

The only other thing I can think of is in regards to Davien, but that would have to be a very shallow interpretation...

Hannah


   By Neil on Tuesday, January 25, 2005 - 03:21 am: Edit Post

I reread the TK end where Daviens mentions that Arithon needed to have "the tempering experience in order to achieve his heart's desire" or something like that...

In theory he wouldn't need a tempering experience to be with Elaira (I think that even dealing with the koriani may not require the level of understanding Arithon is currently getting.

I think Arithon would like to redeem Lysaer. He mentions to Traithe (TK) that just a little bit of initiate training could have protected Lysaer.

Once the curse (on both sides) is dealt with other things fall into place.

Question: Do we really know what a "curse" is?

Could it continue to influence Arithon/Lysaer even if the mistwraith is "resolved". Do the spirits in rockfell need to pass the wheel freely for the curse to be removed ?

Or to put another way...is the curse something that is part of Lysaer/Arithon and completely independant of the mistwraith? If the curse is independant of the mistwraith how on Athera did an bunch of insanse/mad spirits achieve this?!?


   By Trys on Tuesday, January 25, 2005 - 05:17 am: Edit Post

SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER

I thinkn another 'knot' is the cabal betraying Lysaer.

Trys


   By Legion on Tuesday, January 25, 2005 - 01:42 pm: Edit Post

"Or to put another way...is the curse something that is part of Lysaer/Arithon and completely independant of the mistwraith? If the curse is independant of the mistwraith how on Athera did an bunch of insanse/mad spirits achieve this?!?"

The mistwraith used the knowledge of spellcraft that it stole from Arithon when it attacked Arithon and Lysaer after attacking them outside Ithamon. The curse is the result of a banespell the mistwraith cast using this knowledge so it is seperate to the mistwraith. At least as far as i understand it, after all wouldn't the wraith that cast it have been released to cross fates wheel anyway as Sethvir managed to get Name for the creature when he exorcised it from Lysaer I think, wasn't it from that wraith that the fellowship found out the wraiths used to be human?


   By Elaine Thompson on Tuesday, January 25, 2005 - 03:55 pm: Edit Post

I was listing possible traitors and knots:

Sulfin Evend - as others have stated.

Dakar, whose prescience "knotted" so many lives (the line comes when they have to interrupte Elaira & Arithon. Dakar feels like a traitor to Arithon.

The Kralovir cabal

Lysaer himself, betraying his better nature (when I credit him with having one)

From Lysaer's pov, his wife & son, as well as the necromancers' cabal.

The S'Brydion, feeing betrayed by Arithon and caught in the knots of the troubles between Lysaer & everyone else.

The Koriani betraying Elaira (not for the first time, but this was *nasty*)and aren't their sigils referred to sometimes as knots?. . Even her quartz which wanted to serve her is betrayed by being used in such a way. I find myself wondering if that quartz is going to play more of a role, perhaps in helping her be free.

BTW, someone was wondering somewhere whether Elaira could have saved herself from the pregnancy. I dont' think so, since it was going to come to pass, even though she'd prepared a potion to avoid pregnancy.

huh. I thought the list was longer, but I seem to have run out.


   By Blue on Tuesday, January 25, 2005 - 09:22 pm: Edit Post

SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER

Trys, did the Cabal actually betray Lysaer willingly, or were the Kralovir at work a long time before, knowing or somehow getting the knowledge of the curse, and thinking to use it to advantage?

It was WAY back when in WoV that it is mentioned, almost casually, when Sethvir lets Luhaine and Asandir know that Khardamon is coming back from his trip to Marak and there are free wraiths following him. There is a note that Luhaine was in the process of settling the shades [don't remember the EXACT term Janny used] that had been pulled onto the wrong side of the veil by necromancers, and were winnowing in lost patterns.

Luhaine had to do his part to help protect Athera, and the mention of shades/ghosts/whatever the necromancers were fooling with seemed to be nothing more than a passing mention.

A mistake one should NEVER make with Janny!

I wonder, if way back when, the Kralovir somehow got an indication [how, I could not begin to guess] that there was a powerful curse afoot, and that it could be used, considering the scope of the power Lysaer and Arithon wield, to upset the compact.

You know, set the Princes against one another, and while the F7 is frantically trying to minimize or heal the damage, the Kralovir wait for their opportunity to put THEIR greedy little paws into any unguarded cracks in the compact.

They took advantage of the noise and smoke Lysaer and Arithon were making to slip in, undetected, and start fiddling around. They found some native talent, and guessing at Lysaer's actions, enslaved these native talents [such as Cerebeld] to do their bidding. Cerebeld makes suggestions to get rid of the talented, or the seed is placed there by someone from Erdane, and they convince Lysaer [taking advantage of his uneasiness about magecraft] to hire Athera's answer to Torquemada, Vorrice, who starts the equivalence of the Salem Witch Trials.

Notice in SoM, Lysaer is opposed to enslaving clan convicts, and insists the ones brought to help build Avenor be freed? He didn't seem so righteous in FP, when he condemns Maenol's clansmen to chained slavery in the galleys.

Could it be that the Kralovir used this opportunity to use Lysaer's flaws and force his expulsion from the Compact? That way, the F7 would not be scrutinizing Lysaer as closely, leaving him to the judgment of the Paravians, and thus, the Kralovir tightened their grip.

Lysaer, as we saw in PG, was highly suceptible to suggestion. He was in shock, grieving for Kevor's apparent loss. The mere mention of Arithon set off the curse, and put him back in his place as a Kralovir puppet.

The F7 might have to give Sulfin Evend a hand in keeping an eye on this dude, since he refuses to listen to anyone else. I wonder if a sip of the waters of the Five Centuries Fountain might not be in order for Sulfin Evend? At this moment, as far as we know, he is a mortal man, and though "in his prime" [whatever age that might mean on Athera] he will NOT outlive Lysaer, nor even live long enough to guide, guard, or advise him past his first century.

Lysaer, for all that he is a vain, self-righteous pain in the hindquarters, is still important in the scheme of things.