Archive through November 13, 2005

Janny Wurts Chat Area: Arc 3: Alliance of Light: Fugitive Prince, Grand Conspiracy; Peril's Gate & Traitor's Knot: Traitors Knot Discussions: Spoiler Topics: Koriani Protection from the Kralovir: Archive through November 13, 2005
   By Blue on Saturday, November 05, 2005 - 12:13 pm: Edit Post

Which is what made the blood drawing by a Lysaer lookalike lab tech a few months back somewhat creepy.


   By Hunter on Sunday, November 06, 2005 - 06:44 pm: Edit Post

Janny - you raise the rather interesting question of whether Selidie's spirit is still intact following Morriel's possession of Selidie's physical form.

In terms of the permission question, I would think the original Koriani oath would be the kind of blank cheque permission that Morriel could use and abuse at her will.. as she's already done.

Would Morriel have required anything of Selidie's aura/spirit/essence or just a physical housing to continue Morriel's ownership and domination of the Koriani? My thoughts are definitely the latter - the physical housing (I'm sure the Koriathain would be fully freaked out by a discorporate Prime - not to mention the Great Waystone is rather dangerous to disembodied spirits!) and Selidie's subsequent dominance of the Great Waystone to show she is the Prime and get around the problem that Morriel's physical body was failing badly.

I'm really hoping that Selidie is just enslaved and tucked into a tiny corner of her body somewhere.. it has all sorts of juicy possibilities about Morriel being forced from Selidie's body as Ath's law is re-asserted and Selidie reclaims her autonomy, whether via a trip into Ath's Adept's hostel, or through the Great Waystone or another means wrought by the Fellowship.

The passage in Warhost that talks of Arithon ending Morriel's life could still very well fit here.. if Morriel was forced from Selidie's body, could she exist as a wraith or shade? Given her body was burned, she has nothing to return to.. would that then force her past the Wheel?


   By Róisín on Wednesday, November 09, 2005 - 12:13 pm: Edit Post

Hunter: Seldie's hands refuse to heal - because of Morriel's spirit lurking in her body - if Seldie's spirit was still available in some form, couldn't Morriel use her essence to heal the hands?


   By skeoke on Thursday, November 10, 2005 - 09:28 am: Edit Post

Perhaps it is Selidie refusing to let her hands heal for Morriel to use and abuse.


   By Ryan Gohl on Thursday, November 10, 2005 - 11:35 am: Edit Post

I believe it is more along the lines of the spirit not fitting the shell.

She cannot heal, because she is not in harmony and/or balance with the body she is inhabiting.

One other way I can think of to put it, the body is attuned to Selidie, and not Morriel.

Janny brings up the concept of harmony and balance throughout her novels. This instance just focuses and humanizes the idea, which of course in reflected in her telling of the larger scheme of things.

Those are my humble thoughts on this. :D


   By Hunter on Friday, November 11, 2005 - 07:56 am: Edit Post

Roisin, Skeoke,

As Ryan indicates.. the healing the Koriani are trying to do is a forced regeneration. Which if the spirit and the body were the same, would be relatively simple. As I understand trying to use Morriel's spirit to regenerate Selidie's flesh is not compatible.. hence does not work.

I doubt very much that Morriel would *let* Selidie's spirit surface - if indeed Selidie is still sane/whole/uncorrupted - to effect the healing simply because to do so would tell the rest of the Koriani order what Lirenda knows but can't tell - that it's Morriel in Selidie's body. Of course if Morriel was driven from or voluntarily left Selidie's body and Selidie was able to re-inhabit and regain control, such healing could be effected.

Makes an interesting comparison with Kharadmon taking over Dakar's body at Rockfell...


   By michael hammer on Friday, November 11, 2005 - 09:49 pm: Edit Post

i seem to remember that dakar gave permission. while Selidie near the end of the possession tried to resist. its my thought that Selidie won't be intact if shes gains control back.


   By Dorothy on Saturday, November 12, 2005 - 11:22 am: Edit Post

When Morriel's body died and she claimed/possessed Selidie's body, whose personal crystal was cleared? If it was Selidie's, would this send her spirit insane? I'm not really sure exactly what happenend that night. Can anyone shed some light on it, please? Thanks. I was thinking along the lines that if Selidie's crystal was cleared it would release her from her vows. Then perhaps Arithon or the 7 could do something about her terrible situation.


   By Andrew Ginever on Saturday, November 12, 2005 - 09:50 pm: Edit Post

Hi Dorothy

That's a very good question.

I've had a re-read of GC and the wording is that the Koriani Senior Circle cleared the two personal crystals which lay in Morriel's hand and the dead seer's. Of course, we've no way of knowing whether the personal crystal in Morriel's hand at the time of her death was her own or Selidie's.

The cleared crystal might leave the relevant Koriani unable to act (as happened to a large degree in FP with Lirenda when she temporarily lost her personal crystal). This would leave me thinking that it was probably Selidie's that was wiped, leaving her unable to enact even a rudimentary sort of defense against Morriel's possession (not that she had the skills to clear a crystal, either, which also seems relevant somehow).

I don't think it would cause Selidie to go insane, but it might enforce passivity (some sort of mental coma perhaps?).

I also don't think that clearing a crystal would release a Koriani from her vows. Personal crystals seemed to be tuned and retuned as necessary over the centuries. Only the major focus stones such as the Waystone and Skyron couldn't be treated such because there were no other crystals capable of temporarily taking over their roles.

Makes me wonder what would happen if Selidie should be given a personal spell crystal atuned to her spirit. Would Morriel then have a fight on her hands to remain in possession?


   By Dorothy on Sunday, November 13, 2005 - 10:50 am: Edit Post

Thanks, Andrew-so it wasn't clear whose crystal was cleared.Some times I miss what's under my nose and I thought that was one of these occasions.
I think Arithon might be the man for the job of providing that crystal you mention for Selidie-just look at the effect he had on Lirenda's :D
Mind you, given the huge leaps in his abilities, I very much doubt if he would have to bother with a crystal:-)
Time for yet more re-reading.Life's hard for a Wurts fan:-)