Archive through February 10, 2006

Janny Wurts Chat Area: Arc 3: Alliance of Light: Stormed Fortress: End of an arc - time for a big battle..: Archive through February 10, 2006
   By Hunter on Tuesday, February 07, 2006 - 04:09 pm: Edit Post

SPOILERS:

Stormed Fortress will be the end Arc III. Arc I finished with the battle of Strakewood where 8,000 perished. Arc II finished just after the battle of Dier Kenton Vale where about 40,000 were killed. SF is the final book of Arc III so time for a big battle and a lot of people to pass the wheel.. what a cheery thought.

At the end of TK, Lysaer was marching his armies down to Alestron to have tea and scones with Bransian over a few minor points of disagreement. Given Arithon failed to convince the s'Brydions that fighting was a bad option and given Lysaer's armies' size and his intent to pull Alestron apart brick by brick, one can easily imagine Daelion's Wheel spinning rather fast at Alestron.

Key questions are then:
- how many will die?
- will Fionn Areth be amongst them as part of his birth augury?
- what will Elaira's role in the determination of Fionn Areth's future and birth augury be?
- What mischief has Arithon cooked up with Erlien and Kyrialt?
- Where will Jeysna fit into all this? She went to Melhalla rather than chasing after Arithon. The Jaelot army is probably traipsing through there on the way to Alestron.
- Will Selidie sit idly by and watching the battle or stick her nose into it somehow?

So many cheery thoughts.. not!


   By beth on Tuesday, February 07, 2006 - 08:01 pm: Edit Post

hmmm, That might set a very bad president. That would mean the end of Arc 5 would be a battle. I would really hope that the end would not be even more people dying. Would like to see some semblence of a 'happy' ending.

Beth


   By Hunter on Tuesday, February 07, 2006 - 08:27 pm: Edit Post

The precedent has been set, the question is whether Arcs IV and V will continue it!

At some stage Lysaer is going to have to face his due reckoning in front of Paravian justice. The Fellowship have effectly washed their hands of Lysaer being their responsibility (which Selidie thinks is reprehensible inaction by the Fellowship) when they threw him out of the Compact. Lysaer then did face a shade/projection of a Paravian in Daon Ramon without seeming to be too unduly affected (although lots of his followers were).

So far the battles have also been one per kingdom:
Arc I: Strakewood in Rathain
Arc II: Dier Kenton Vale in Shand
Arc III: Alestron in Melhalla

That leaves Havish and Tysan for Arcs IV and V.

I'm curious what you mean by happy ending?


   By Auna on Tuesday, February 07, 2006 - 09:02 pm: Edit Post

Happy endings =

Elaira and Arithon get happily together, have babies, make music and cool shadow puppet magic for all, nobody is after them, Paravians come back, the situation with humans and Paravians is settled satisfactorily, townborn and clan get along, Traithe gets fixed, the Fellowship become a full seven unified set of friends and get a permanent vacation from babysitting so they can do what they want, Selidie/Morriel sees the errors of her ways and the Koriani become a more benevolent group that respects free will and sentience of everything in Athera, Lirenda gets freed and finds peace and true love, all Koriani stones get to choose their destiny (either wipe or serve willingly), grimwards are no longer needed because everything in them is dealt with, the mistwraith is dealt with (spirits Named and freed), no more necromancers, etc.

I'm sure I missed a few billion other loose ends too!


   By Mary on Tuesday, February 07, 2006 - 11:09 pm: Edit Post

I like it Auna!

How about Elaira (with happy, cooperative Koriani stones) becomes the new Koriani Prime - but in a different role?

Mary


   By Rebecca Harris on Wednesday, February 08, 2006 - 12:03 am: Edit Post

Hi I have been browsing (lurking) here for sometime so decided it was time to come out in the open :-)

I have to disagree Auna - that is way too many happy endings. I like to see the characters grow and change and if everything ties up too neatly there is nowhere for the "characters" to go after the story ends. I like to know that the story/characters go on after the story ends (except the ones that die!). Too many happy endings result in no progress for the characters, whether physical, social, emotional etc. Atrophy will set in, society will crumble, and they will never reach the future.

I am sorry, but I am of the firm belief that if everything is perfect no-one has to work to achieve anything and nothing gets done. That is why this series is so wonderful. We have seen so much growth and change for all our characters. They grow and change with each decision they make whether we think they make the right choice or not - this is how we live too. I can't even begin to come up with any idea of how the story will pan out as we don't know what situations/decisions Janny is going to throw at them or what choices they will make. Speculating is great fun, but it is only that, and why try and anticipate what will happen. I feel like I am riding a wave - just along for the ride will a inexorable force takes me where it will (that's you Janny - or perhaps it is the story itself?!).

I only know one other author who I have ever read who pulls me in so totally. The difference is that with his stories I usual dislike the main characters with a passion but have to keep reading in the hope they can redeem themselves. With Janny's story I love all the characters - even Lysaer and Morriel (sometimes I would like to give them a good shake though). Who can dislike them for wanting what is best for their people (in Morriel's case she seems to think it is what is best for humanity)? If you look at all the conflicts that happen in our world both sides always think they are right - it is all a matter of perception. History depends on who writes it.

Wow - this is a longer than I intended and I seem to have waffled on - Sorry :-)

Bec


   By Hunter on Wednesday, February 08, 2006 - 04:33 am: Edit Post

It would *seem* from the prologue in Curse that by the Seventh Age none of what we currently care about really exists.. Fellowship, Paravians.. Arithon, Elaira.

As I think this entire series is really a story about the Fellowship, the release of them from their charge will be what completes their redemption and allows them to finish their task and move on. Which would most likely mean the death/fading away/final resting for the Fellowship after many millennia of service. They've been alive for the best part of 10,000 years or more.. that's a long time.

This will require the Paravians to firstly have returned and then move elsewhere, to Athlieria or somewhere else beyond the viel, perhaps back to Ath who sent them in the first place.

To complete the circle of redemption would also perhaps mean a human resolution for what lead to the great calamity in the first place.

Elaira has a key role to play no doubt, but the Fellowship's interest in Arithon first and foremost is simply that by him staying alive, the return of the Paravians is at least assured, which keeps alive the possibility of the Fellowship completing and being released from their original charge - will require a great drake to be present to release them. Elaira is critical to Arithon (and won't it be interesting when Lysaer finally works that out and tries to or succeeds in abducting Elaira as payback for Talith and perhaps the defection of Ellaine,hmm..) and could conceivably be the making or breaking of Arithon.

Then again, the Fellowship have broken Arithon's heart several times over. To complete their charge, they would do so again. Mykkael achieved redemption and peace at the end of To Ride Hell's Chasm. Will Arithon achieve the same piece? I am not sure. Whether Arithon produces an heir or not is also only relevant if at the time Arithon finally does, that the Compact is still whole and kingdom law and dynastic succession are still in place. If at that time the Compact is sundered, the towns rule all of Athera and the Kingdom law is irrelevant, it won't matter much.. So "happy ending"? No. Completion of tasks and release, yes.. that is my happy ending..


More rambling.. :-)


   By neil on Wednesday, February 08, 2006 - 05:34 am: Edit Post

There are so many threads....but picking up on Arithon:

Arithon's "not to kill" approach seems to mean that he will avoid confrontation that leads to battle.

Davien still sees the mistwraith's curse as active and trying to destroy Arithon.

Arithon's course of non-violence seems to have "terrible wide-ranging effect". Has Arithon in fact sealed the clans fate if they themselves choose not to make peace?

Arithon suggests that he is expected to salvage the compact and drag humanity out of jeopardy. Davien suggests that on Arithon rests humanity's hope of survival.

Davien seems to think the mistwraith is both "salvation and bane" and on this paradox Arithon needs to be careful if he resists Fellowship strategy(?).

But Arithon appears to be a "experiment" that could suggest a future model for humanity...

Arithon sees the choice of not taking kingship as readily forcing paravian survival but risking precipitating townborn politics to sunder the compact (how? Are all the F7 responsibilities weighing too heavily so that they cannot stop humanity from breaking the compact? Or was this always at risk by right of free will?)

It's curious that a human error (i.e. mistwraith creation) may be the catalyst that strengthens humanity's chances of survival by forcing change.


   By Blue on Wednesday, February 08, 2006 - 12:43 pm: Edit Post

We have seen so much growth and change for all our characters

Rebecca, I find it interesting your choice of words - "our characters."

For one thing, I wish I had Janny's gift for creating such memorable and interesting characters, but that is beside the point.

I think, in a way, these characters have, in a sense, become "ours." We, the fans, cheer for them, feel for them, want them to triumph, and are sad when something happens to them.

I remember being VERY sad about Steiven and Dania, for example, at the end of CotM. I was rather angry that they had died, because they were such delightful people who "deserved" to live. How would Arithon's life have changed had he been more or less adopted by the s'Valerient clan? One thing's certain, Dania would have had her hands full with our green eyed boy!

But why was I getting so bent out of shape for people who don't exist in "reality"? Why? Because Janny made them seem so real, like friends I would invite into my home. I have had friends like these two, and Steiven and Dania's deaths really affected me as though they WERE friends.

Of course, most of the folks I call friends these days are about as independent and ornery as the brothers s'Brydion. I love these brothers, by the way, with all of their squabbles and the things they say.

"I don't give a damn if your liege is stark naked in his bath with six mistresses!"

So, yes, in a way, in sharing these characters with the world, Janny has, in essense, made them ours as well.


   By Auna on Wednesday, February 08, 2006 - 12:51 pm: Edit Post

Glad to force you out of hiding Bec, didn't mean to scare you with all those happy endings ;) Hunter was curious what a happy ending meant, so I came up with the most sappy ones!

I feel sorry for Lysaer if he tries to kidnap Elaira. *evil grin* I would love to see him try!


   By Kris on Wednesday, February 08, 2006 - 07:13 pm: Edit Post

While I doubt it will happen, I could see a tragic, yet peaceful conclusion. One where you're shocked, crying, and in a daze, yet somehow it fits more than any happy ending could have. It would just seem right, with a certain peace and beauty to it.


   By Beth Caudill on Wednesday, February 08, 2006 - 09:45 pm: Edit Post

That's why I put 'happy' in quotes. Happy is relative for many people plus, if someone is happy others have to be less so.

For me, happy would be seeing Elaira and Arithon together. Also seeing Traithe either get his powers back or more accepting of their loss. Those are the storylines I care the most about so would wish to see them setteled in a mostly positive way. I won't try and figure out how Janny will finish. :-)

I would actually like to see Arithon's children inherit the kingdom and let him go be Masterbard. As for Elaira, I would like her to be totally free of the Koriani.

I would expect Selidie/Morriel to have justice served in some way. Being trapped forever in one of the stones might be good for her. Then again that would be bad for anyone else that might need to use the stone.

As for Lysaer, I always imagined that he would be sent back home. I can't imagine him living on the same world with the Paravians returned. I can't see him being killed off...just sent to live somewhere else.


Beth


   By Jo on Thursday, February 09, 2006 - 02:28 pm: Edit Post

I also would like to see Arithon become a masterbared and his children ruling the kingdom, also I would like to see Lysaers son take over rule. I think he is very compasionate compared to Lysaer more like his mother i believe. I still think that it will not be the happy ending I desire as curse of the mistwraith prolog makes it seem Lysaer's religion ruled and Arithon was evil and they were reading in the whatever age, can't remember now.


   By Ryan Gohl on Thursday, February 09, 2006 - 02:43 pm: Edit Post

Who is to say that it has to end so terribly on this arc?

What if Lysaer is never fully cured of the Mistwraith? However, somekind of stalemate, or balance is achieved, in which the manhunts and slaughter trail off.

Maybe it purely becomes a propaganda war. Or possibly, maybe Lysaer and Arithon do make amends, and the Mistwraith is banished. The religion by that time would be firmly entrenched. Lysaer as a statesman, couldn't really go back and admit EVERYTHING done in the name of the Light was a mistake. the general populace wouldn't accept it. Maybe it's Arithon's ultimate sacrifice, to remain cast as the villian, in order to achieve and keep stability in a relm that had previously known such chaos, even though he and his brother were reconciled.

Just thoughts, and given Janny's penchant to make Arithon perpetually suffer, I'm probably wrong. lol

Arithon definitely needs a vacation from Athera. lol It seems to be bad for his health. lol


   By Hunter on Thursday, February 09, 2006 - 09:09 pm: Edit Post

Are you suggesting that the army that Lysaer wants to camp outside of Alestron are there as tourists taking happy snaps?

Or that Lysaer will have a cozy fireside chat with Bransian in which he'll admit all along that he (Lysaer) has been wrong, that the s'Brydions are doing what they think best and apologize for the mess his troops have made of the surrounding country side?

Lysaer is going to pull Alestron apart brick by brick for two specific reasons - firstly he's finally gotten the impetous to address the traitorous s'Brydion since the affair at Riverton and the effigies of Cattrick, Ivel, etc. that Lysaer was shown off the west coast. Secondly, he's still operating under the belief that it was the s'Brydion who kidnapped Ellaine and turned her against Lysaer and his cause. Not that addressing this will return Ellaine I would think. As Bransian, given half a chance, will tell Lysaer - Ellaine went where she did of her own free will.


   By Ryan Gohl on Thursday, February 09, 2006 - 09:18 pm: Edit Post

Well, I don't know what twists may be in this next book.

I may be looking too far ahead as well in my ideas for possible resolutions for the story, or at least past the arc. I tend to think of the arcs as chapters in the story, and am trying to guess that end.


   By Hunter on Thursday, February 09, 2006 - 09:48 pm: Edit Post

There's any number of people trying to guess the end of this story! Only one person knows for sure and she's not telling (yet). :-)


   By Ryan Gohl on Thursday, February 09, 2006 - 10:27 pm: Edit Post

Very true. I just wanted to toss my two cents in. lol


   By Neil on Friday, February 10, 2006 - 07:09 am: Edit Post

Rereading TK, Lysaer has been memorising paravian cantrips.

Luhaine admits that war is on the way when speaking to Eldir.

The s'Brydions don't appear to want to leave. Will they really not trust Arithon?


   By Hunter on Friday, February 10, 2006 - 09:47 am: Edit Post

The s'Brydion reluctance to leave is probably also something to do with how long the s'Brydion clan has owned Alestron. The Charter for Alestron was certified by Melhalla's 12th High King (as Asandir says when he turns up to deal with the gunpowder issue).

Working on the base assumption that the Melhalla High Kings changed like s'Ilessid and s'Ffalenn, if there was a s'Ellestrion Melhalla High King, they would be up to about 1500. We're in 5670 Third age, roughly four years / per High King on average. So the 12th was around Third Age 48, more than 5,500 years ago. That's an awful long time for a family to rule and be the home. I would be rather reluctant to move out..

It would also be rather interesting to read what Alestron's original charter was. It seems very much an anachronism on Athera. It is not on a Paravian focus circle so would appear to be between lanes and was not a Paravian stronghold as were Avenor, Ithamon and others. It is a town for people of low/no vibrational sensitivity but yet ruled by clans. I'm not entirely convinced that the s'Brydions (Mearn possible exception) would pass the time honoured clan test of Paravian presence. Yet they support Kingdom law but were enemies of the Shandian clans in Warhost?