Spoiler, Spoiler, Spoiler, Spoiler, Spoiler.
OK this I am pretty sure is one of Janny's cleverly devised clues, make of it what you will.
'Lysaer wouldn't make use of children or innocents.'
'You can't know that!' Dakar swore for the lack of a light. He needed to determine whether Arithon braced in shock, or if he was pitched for combative, hot argument. Left no tool but blind trust, he probed softly. 'In the course of three decades, the curse could have changed the half brother you knew past all scruple.'
'No.' Arithon shoved away from the stern window, his admission touched by an odd, heavy weariness. 'By now, I recognize Desh-thiere's workings firsthand.' His clipped speech wove through his fidgeting steps. 'Lysaer was claimed into thrall through his true gift of justice. Change that, and the Mistwraith's hold on him weakens.'
Grand Conspiracy pg 388 PB 1999 ed.
'The Shadow Master has few scruples. But I know him well enough to hedge that he'd sanction no ambush that involved any use of small children.'
Curse of the Mistwraith
Just wondering if the change in the format- having to go through Books chat link has caused this apparent silence??
No, I use a direct link to the discussion area, so changing the official site around made no difference to me. Except I had to look a bit harder to find the webstore. I have just been out of action for a while and still waiting for the USA release of the mass market edition of IT to see if Janny gives us something to inspire a bit of discussion.
But as to the speculation, has anyone wondered about that touchstone that has a record of Asandir's seal of crown sanction? Apart from that sort of thing being recorded in the first place being strange, and likely in quartz or some other crystal, it would be an imprint of the seal of a sanctioned s'Ilessid crown heir. Which is something someone might be needing in the next book. Arithon is the sanctioned prince for Rathain, he has blood ties to Shand and Melhalla. Elaira seems set to gain an imprint for Havish, but if all 5 kingdoms are needed how would someone acquire sanction for Tysan without Asandir's help?
It might not be Arithon that needs it, Janny has not given us much to go on, could be Elaira, Tarens, Lysaer or there is still Dakar who is a mystery. Athera is lacking in royals, yet it seems 5 are needed for this grand destiny whatever it is going to be, one for each kingdom. And the only clue we have for Tysan so far seems to be that touchstone. Do we get 5 in one, a pair or a triad? Or I could be completely wrong, and it might be something else, or someone else.
I seem to have missed something in my re reading. What Tysan touchstone? Lysaer also has blood ties to Shand and Mehalla, and for that matter the Beidar through their mother's line.
The touchstone was briefly mentioned on page 198 of Initiate's Trial, easily missed. But I am sure Janny has plans for such an interesting item.
There is no proof yet there is Biedar blood in any of the royal lineages. And from the descriptions we have of the Biedar, if there was it would more likely be the s'Ffalenn lineage. Look at the description of Elaira's rescuer and escort and compare it to descriptions of Arithon. Torbrand could have been of mixed breeding, and the Biedar seem to have known Torbrand. The Biedar being involved with arranging Shands last king and s'Dienvals last prophet to meet does not involve Biedar bloodlines as far as we know. Although whether or not Dari like Teylia was a Biedar spirit reborn remains to be seen. It seems likely.
Lysaer has no connection with the mysteries, and is outcast, he has no way to claim even his own s'Ilessid kingship, let alone the inheritance for another kingdom. Certainly the only way he has of attracting Paravian attention is not going to do anything to recommend him as a defender for Athera. Having attacked and destroyed in every kingdom of Athera is not going to win him anything but a kingship offered under town law. The Fellowship would never sanction Lysaer for kingship and the clans would never accept him.
Arithon has already stood in defence of both clan and land in every kingdom but Havish, He saved the women and children at Torwent, but has not yet done anything else in Havish. Arithon has blood ties to Shand's Royal line and the s'Dienval line was possibly like the s'Gannley one an alternate lineage that could have been one of the chosen royal lines. How were there s'Gannley princes before the fellowship chose the royal lines for Athera? Where did the mysterious princess of Falmuir who was gifted as a seer come from? Was she an ancestor of the s'Dieneval line perhaps?
Arithon has ties through oath to Rathain, Tysan, Shand and probably Melhalla, through either guest oath, or s'Brydion alliance. I would not be surprised if a s'Brydion was Melhala's current caithdein. Havish should whip the guest cup out if they ever get Arithon back there again. The new Queen might no longer feel Havish needs to stay neutral after Lysaer's actions in Initiate's Trial. And Havish would not have seen the last of the Lights fanatics.
Arithon might have no interest in kingship, but if he is to defend all 5 kingdoms through what ever disaster is coming, he would possibly have to claim the attunements for all 5 kingdoms. He would not be getting them from Asandir. Arithon seems to have no trouble finding a Paravian when he needs one, and he has already visited the kings grove in Selkwood. Maybe there is another way to get the attunements. Each kingdom would have its own sacred groves. And there is still the ruins of Earle and Mainmere and whatever secrets they might hold. It would likely be Arithon that investigates those sites. Tarens does not have the training and Dakar is still a bit of a coward not likely to be volunteering for more responsibility. Elaira also needs training up. And Lysaer is not only lacking training and motive, but will still be cursed, so not likely to be investigating any Paravian secrets, unless it is for a way to destroy them.
I will need to re read the conversation between the Beidar elder and Elaira. I thought she said that Dari's mother was tribal. I also thought the S'Dienval and S'Ahalas lines were through the mother.
Havish was always threatened by the Light's fanatics. They may think twice though before attacking Havish again- Asandir forced the peace.
Not sure what disaster is comming- probably not much different than what has come in the past at least in terms of warfare. I do not think Arithon has to defend every kingdom though.
Dari's mother was Meiglin s'Dieneval her father was the young ruler of Shand, no obvious tribal blood ties. Neither parent was of the Biedar tribe.
‘Not a rogue gift at all! The legacy bestowed upon Dari also was ours, danced into manifest focus and made flesh and blood for the purpose of Mother Dark’s service.’
Tribal or not Arithon and Lysaer share the same maternal DNA and their arcane gifts are inherited through that line. I've only read the short story ?Sundering sky?? once years ago and remember just the gist. Do not recall the Beidar being mentioned as the founder population on multiple planets. Anyway I do not think descending from Beidar is a pre requisite for having "talent". The ability to move energy is inherent in humans and even in out real world every culture has a history of mysticism and healing hands.
The Biedar while colonising the worlds first were probably not directly interacting with the human population who arrived later, they were doing something with the planet itself more likely, that accelerated the development of talent or what would later develop into talent. They colonised the planets first it seems, then moved on to another planet when others showed up. Only on Scathac did they refuse to move.
In fact, their erratic history had colonized other worlds, prior to this one. Choice habitats, worthy of taking a stand; not the bare, poisoned vista PanTac's combined governments had made of this scorched patch of hell.
There is a very nice painting of that Ilswater sketch up on the Paravia site, I wonder if that is a possibility for the cover of Destiny's Conflict?
Despite visiting Caithwood in Initiate's Trial the Ilswater River was not mentioned, so not for the last book.
False alarm, it is just the one done for Grand Conspiracy, but I swear that was not there before. I must be going blind.
Should have known, we can buy that one.
I don't think that I have seen this one before, so even if it is not really news, you still get a Thanks! from me, Annette.
Speaking of paintings, is there any chance that you might be doing one of a Khetienn in the future, Janny? I know there is a picture that shows the Khetienn of Arithon's banner (Signal at the Havens), but what I would love to see is a real one.
I have some doubts the Khetienn would get much of a mention in the last two books even if she managed to still stay afloat centuries later. The opportunities for Arithon to go blue water sailing might be very few. And there would not be much left of the original ship, after all that refitting over the centuries, Arithon might not feel the same way about her. Now if Janny ever did a sketch for Khetienn in her heyday, it would be nice to see what she looked like.
Or maybe Arithon builds a new ship, if in ages to come he makes a return journey to Kathtairr, to maybe deal with a grimward. He has to get to them eventually, assuming Janny covers that in the last book, and Athera finally gets fully restored before the end of the series.
Ah, sorry, I should have made this clearer. When I said I would love to see a real Khetienn, I was refering to the leopard, not the ship.
My mistake, asleep as usual.
Ypso - now that is a very very interesting question! Giving it some thought....could be fun!
Why would Arithon have to deal with the grimward? He's already saved the world from the Marak wraiths and will presumably have to do the same with those that make up the Mistwraith. Sheshkroziel (spelling?)took care of at least one. Perhaps she couldbe convinced to eradicate the others.
Seshkrozchiel got rid of one grimwarded dragon haunt, with a bit of help, and helped Davien repair two other grimwards. That seemed a perfect chance to be rid of three Grimwarded dragons, instead only the grimward Asandir was trapped in was dealt with, and that was not easy to do, and he was just a nameless dragon. I am pretty sure most of those grimwards are waiting for Arithon to develop his talents and skills enough to be able to deal with them.
Arithon would have a bit more than just the Mistwraith waiting to be redeemed in the next book, there is still the khadrim, meth spawn, a mad Koriani matriarch and Lysaer to go, and maybe another lot of necromancers unless Lysaer or a dragon toast them first. And then there is the problem of getting humanity to the fourth age.
Really?! That would be great, Janny! I will keep my fingers crossed and hope for a Khetienn out there who, while probably as shy as any other wild cat, will allow you to paint her should the time come.
With regards to what the future may or may not has in store for Arithon, I sincerely hope that he won't deal with the Khadrim (in the sense of getting rid of them). This may sound a bit odd but I have to admit that I harbour some kind of tender affection for them, born out of pure fascination. To me it is similar with the Seardluin, though I wouldn't want to come across either of them.
So I would rather have them left alone. Must be hard enough already - and, I guess, boring as well - being confined to that preserve most of them.
Argh, 'most of them' should of course read 'most of the time'. Sorry for the confusion and the double post.
Spoiler, Spoiler, Spoiler, Spoiler, Spoiler.
Why we have to use spoiler tags for speculation is a mystery to me. Today's top secret bit of speculation concerns something Maenelle said to Lysaer a fair while back, and which Janny brought up in Initiate's Trial.
From this day forward, expect an arrow from the shadows, poison in your cup, and a knife at your throat, among my people.
I am one of those readers who took that statement of Maenelle as nothing else than a classic curse, though your observations are not uninteresting and it would be quite an ironic twist.
Aside from the mentioned lack of effect on Lysear there seems to be another reason why (in my opinion) Maenol's arrows do not qualify as the one evoked by Maenelle, at least when Sulfin Evend's and Daliana's actions represent knife and poison. What they did was done for Lysaer's sake, but the same can not be said of Maenol's arrows. Also, while both Sulfin Evend and Daliana had/has a close relationship with Lysaer, he and Maenol did not share such a deep bond. Sure, Maenol was pretty upset when Lysaer allied with the townsmen, but I do not remember that Lysaer cared particularly much for him.
So, yes, my guess would be that the arrow from the shadow has yet to come.
Perhaps the arrow from the shadow is the reminder that Lysaer's claim to kingship is not sanctioned: the caithdien's line survives and is a functioning "shadow behind the throne". I hope that there will be reconcilliation with the Tysan clans. At some point Lysaer has to overcome the curse- his character has already evolved so much.
I am leaning heavily towards Sulfin Evend getting two shots at altering Lysaer's path. Just have not got around to rounding up the quotes, but his major decision had not yet occurred at the end of Stormed Fortress. Cannot think what Lysaer could have done to deserve such a pointed argument though, considering Arithon was already out of the picture. Maybe it was the kingship thing again.
I think by the end of this Lysaer would have lost all interest in kingship, so reconciliation with Tysan's clans might not be high on his list of things to do. He might not want to try and pick up the shattered pieces of his life after that Mistwraith is finished with him, and it seems his own gift of justice might get in the way of him even trying. From what Ath's adept said, there is actually something Lysaer can do to help once freed, but I would think it had more to do with preventing his townspeople from getting BBQ'd by a very angry dragon. Or maybe he can help get Arithon back, but I would think Arithon would not be depending on Lysaer for help.
I agree that Lysaer may not be interested in kingship, but he knows what harm his actions (with/without the mistwraith influence) have done. Attempting to reconcile with Tysan's clans would not be outside of his sense of justice. We will have to see how much self control he maintains in order to divorce from the Sect again. He did initiate a decent truce in Rathain which lasted generations.
The truce in Rathain was possible because Lysaer got a break from fighting the curse while Arithon was imprisoned. And a truce is a long way from reconciliation, I doubt Barach forgave Lysaer for murdering his father, but he had to think of the safety of the clans first. Lysaer goes burning temples in Tysan, the True Sect is likely to burn something more irreplaceable in Rathain. Rathain's clans are no longer protected, Lysaer left them to the mercy of the True Sect. He never hesitated to leave Dakar and Daliana in similar danger. The curse would blind Lysaer to the consequences of most of his actions.
A truce is a beginning. The strife was brewing well before the Rebellion, Mistwraith lasted 500 years, etc. It will take many generations to sow any seeds of trust (much harder than distrust). I doubt Lysaer was looking for Barach's forgiveness. Jieret's family was told that it was his own decision to act as a sacrifice. Also if they adhered to the Charter Law- it would be the Paravians to redress the murder of caithdiens. One could of course argue that Jieret was actively dying anyway when the sword pierced his heart.
I'm not so sure that Lysaer does not weigh alternatives- he is gifted to some extent with farsight. He did not seem surprised that Daliana survived the Inn cellar. My guess is that he assumed Dakar's 700 years of Fellowship training did not leave them defenseless. As far as protecting the clans- they have survived purges before albeit with dwindling population,he may trust that history.
It is not only Rathain's clans Lysaer put at risk rushing off to war to throw his might around and hand out punishment. As elected Major of Etarra he had a lawful duty to protect the townborn of Etarra as well. Under charter law Lysaer had no right invading another kingdom, either Havish or Tysan and starting a war. If he was forced against his will to invade Havish, he cannot really say he did not have a choice if he goes to Tysan. Although it will be the effect of the curse just the same.
Lysaer goes burning temples in Tysan, he is going to cause the very problem he was trying to avoid, the people will see him as an avatar handing out divine retribution, and worship him even more. The true Sect would have won, and reunited Lysaer with his faithful followers.
Lysaer might not show it, but still those failings would hurt him and add more coals to the fire. In his right mind Lysaer would never have deserted two friends who had risked their lives to save him. Or deserted those under his lawful protection. Even what little integrity Lysaer had hung on to previously while fighting the curse, seems to be vanishing.
There are still some low points Lysaer has not reached, but he seems likely to get there.
I hope for the sake of story telling that Lysaer does not sink any lower. He seemed to reach a plateau stage then dipped down because of the curse. We do not know yet what happened to him under Daliana and Dakar's care after the attack on Havish. We do know that the Fellowship have forced a border truce and maybe arcanely backed the terms. They have intervened for Daliana every time she was brought to the brink. We also do not know what Lysaer was doing while the True sect troops were invading Rathain- we got a very small glimpse after all. He cannot be everywhere at once.
I wondered why the Fellowship did not or were not able to protect the clans of Tysan during the previous 250 years.
'We impair no man's free will by the Law of the Major Balance, that we are charged never to violate.'
They have the power to restrain every fanatic but their first loyalty is Paravian survival. I got the feeling that Tysan's clans in resident are winnowed drastically down. Survival of bloodlines was ensured by sending refugees to Havish.They could ask for guidence if nothing else. Asandir mitigated the truce between the sect and Havish, there will be consequences if the terms are broken as each side went into negotiations by free will.
Although the seven value each individual "life", they do not see death per se as negative. Everything is connected- flesh allows sensation but can inhibit the true spirit.
We have no evidence a truce was signed between Havish and the True Sect, all that I remember being said was Asandir treated with the Hatchet to clear the war host from Havish's borders. Maybe all Asander said was get and they ran.
The Law of the Major Balance is not some man made law the Fellowship can break whenever they feel like it, It is the source of their power. They might break it to save Athera. It seems they were willing to break it to save the compact, if they were willing to kill Lysaer as a last resort, but they would not break it otherwise.
But the clans suffering persecution is nothing new, they have been hunted for over 7 hundred years, the clans would not need to ask advice of the Fellowship on how to survive headhunters. And the Fellowship is not some oracle the clans can ask advice from for every problem they have. That and the clans are very independent, just like Arithon is, they would face extermination probably before asking for help.
Pretty sure the Fellowship would see every life lost untimely to a violent death as a negative impact, literally. Not everyone is bound to Athera and immortal like most of the Fellowship are, even Paravians cross the wheel when they die. And they would certainly see Arithon's death as negative, since their hopes for the future would be ashes without him.
If the Fellowship did not see death as a negative, they would have just let Arithon live out his life as a bard and be happy.
I think there is a distinction between the Law of the Major Balance and the Compact. The Seven seem to allow things to get to a critical mass before intervening. The Grey necromancers were freely practicing until they threatened the compact with the very real threat of enthralling Lysaer and the untapped potential of his gift.
The clans can ask for help- why they don't is a bit irritating. I haven't read anything that says they would be denied. Part of their stubborness is their adherence to the compact. As the last defenders of the free wilds I cannot fathom why they would rather die out than ask for help.
The Fellowship would view death on different levels. THey are compassionate beings and understand loss, they see the "big picture" and what a death means to the immediate and seemingly extraneous relationships of the deceased. However death in and of itself is part of life. The Fellowship understands the interconnectedness of everything and would view the end of physical existence as energy recycling.
THe Fellowship did not let Arithon live without ties to monarchy because they needed him in that role at that time. Even if he was never sanctioned as crown heir, the mistwraith's curse would have hounded Arithon's existence.
I have a question. Could a dragon dream the curse away from lysaer? When Arithon went into the glade and through his endeavors was washed clean, could he do that for his brother too? Obviously, not within range of each other, but I wonder if it could be done. He awoke Sight in Tarens through music. He could do the same with his brother.
Would Lysaer have to be in the Glade for it to work? He has ties there just like Arithon does. OR would he need to be sanctioned by the Fellowship again for it to work?
With Arithon's new found knowledge battling the free wraiths, could He help unravel the mistwraith from his half-brothers birth gift of Justice?
I doubt dragons would be inclined to help and may be too bludgeon-y a force to deal with it properly.
I've been pretty sure for a while that Arithon's bardic gift is the only hope for Lysaer.
The biggest issue though is that Lysaer would have to want to be helped and he is tangled with too many fears and self-delusions to make that happen just yet.