Archive through July 16, 2015

Janny Wurts Chat Area: Arc 4: Sword of the Canon: Destiny's Conflict: Speculation (Spoiler Rules Apply): Archive through July 16, 2015
   By Judy on Tuesday, September 02, 2014 - 08:06 pm: Edit Post

No, she hasn't - she's missing Ciladis and Sethvir from her F7 collection. That should change soon, however, since she's heading to Althain Tower at the end of IT.

   By Auna on Wednesday, September 03, 2014 - 02:35 pm: Edit Post

Can't wait to see that meeting :-)

   By Annette on Wednesday, May 20, 2015 - 04:32 am: Edit Post

Janny was busy over at Keycon on Friday and the weekend, when hunting for photo's of the con, a sketch of Telmandir was spotted.

What do we think, might end up on the cover? Still would like Arithon to have the central spot though. Havish would play a pivotal role, in the coming conflict, being the only kingdom still ruled under charter law, and a sanctuary for the clan bloodlines and other talent persecuted by the True Sect, and other misguided townborn. If Lysaer or the followers of his false religion want to unite Paravia as one kingdom, Havish is going to be a problem.

   By DarthJazy on Wednesday, May 20, 2015 - 02:08 pm: Edit Post

I want to see Lysaer on the cover he hasn't been on one in a while. He will be redeemed by the end of this book so that way he has to help fix what he started in the last arc.

   By DarthJazy on Wednesday, May 20, 2015 - 02:21 pm: Edit Post

It is hard work being the only Lysaer fan and thinking the F7 for the ones that should have to answer for all Lysaer has done while under the control of the mistwraith.

   By Dina on Wednesday, May 20, 2015 - 03:18 pm: Edit Post

I used to feel sorry for Lysaer. Poor guy, stuck with this curse and everything and doomed to be its slave.

Now, I don't. It all boils down to when his mother left. As a 3-year-old boy, Lysaer would not have understood the reasons for her leaving or had the maturity to realize that it had nothing to do with him. Being a 3-year-old child, he would have thought she left him. His father does nothing to alleviate this insecurity, probably is unaware of it. He doesn't help by teaching Lysaer to hate Arithon's father and the rest of that country.

By the time Lysaer reaches Curse of the Mistwraith, he's marinated in a nice cocktail of insecurity and unlove (perceived from his mother, actual from his father). He hasn't learned how to deal with these feelings, so he's respressed them. He blames his mother for leaving, a behavior he learned from his father. All of this together means that Lysaer doesn't know how to treat women. He was never going to be able to treat them properly.

It's too easy to say the Curse brought it out in him. I would say it was latent inside him, and the Curse only wore away inhibitions which would have been worn out on their own in any case. What I'm trying to say is: the damage is already there, and the Curse doesn't affect anything that would have happened in any case without it.

It's like a drunk husband blaming the alcohol for beating his wife instead of his own actions.

I use women as one example, but Lysaer has manifested this behavior in other areas of his personal and public decision making as well.

   By Annette on Wednesday, May 20, 2015 - 08:24 pm: Edit Post

Yet the earls daughter on Dascen Elur I doubt noticed any insecurities in her handsome golden prince. The prince we saw before he met Arithon, and which occasionally shone though even after seems almost the opposite of the cursed one. Maybe the curse is magnifying Lysaer's feelings of abandonment, just like it magnified the hatred for Arithon? By turning Lysaer against the support and love he needs to make a stand against the curse and its violence and hatred, it gains more control of Lysaer.

Not that I think Lysaer has been so harshly treated, living like a king for all those years, all those adoring fans fawning over him. A grand cause to fight for. That was what he wanted back at the start. Once freed of the curse, I am wondering if Lysaer might feel a lot differently about kingship and what he really wants.

   By Julie on Wednesday, May 20, 2015 - 08:58 pm: Edit Post

DarthJazy- you are not the only Lysaer fan. In COTMW he was not the aggressor to start with. True he was pampered, sheltered, etc, but he did not shirk from living rough or trying to pull his own weight. His sense of duty is very strong.

His only true friend was Sulfen Evend- pity he did not have longevity. I did not get the impression he enjoyed the years since SE's death, the rich living notwithstanding.

As for women- the curse twisted the original trauma of abandonment. I am holding out that he finds true friendship and trust with Daliana. The only other person he may be able to turn to is Dakar- not particularly firm footing though.

   By DarthJazy on Thursday, June 04, 2015 - 12:12 pm: Edit Post

*Speculates from a dark corner*

   By Annette on Thursday, June 04, 2015 - 07:40 pm: Edit Post

A quote from Ships of Merior -

"A woman in his bed could never blunt his ardour to see Rathain’s prince bleed on his sword."

Talith failed, Elaine never had much of a chance, Daliana it seems will be putting more than just a dent in that bloodthirsty ardour. If others will just leave them to it.

   By Julie on Monday, June 08, 2015 - 11:45 am: Edit Post

If the Curse would leave them to it. Lysaer is battling that bloodthirsty ardor every waking moment. We may get some flashbacks to his life prior to Arithon regaining his freedom; but I somehow doubt he will appear engaged emotionally to anyone knowing through far sight he will be set upon by the mistwraith again. We know that Lysaer attempted to rule Rathain fairly (yes I know its not his to rule)but the clans accepted the arrangement because it kept them relatively safe. We also know from the sneak preview that they are being hunted by the Hatchet so either Lysear gave his tacit approval (hope not), he no longer has the power to prevent it, or there is a larger strategy he is at work on.

   By Annette on Monday, June 08, 2015 - 12:54 pm: Edit Post

Daliana is Lysaer's best chance to fight the curse, would have the opposite effect if Lysaer made Daliana his mistress. Lysaer is more likely to marry her, than keep his hands off her. Lysaer will just be off in Tysan burning temples, and settling things so maybe not in Rathain for a while.

The True Sect took over Etarra, army probably went there after they were tossed out of Havish. Lysaer had been planning on going to Tysan before things went wrong. Dakar and Daliana seemed headed that way, Arithon was heading for Rathain.

Where did Arithon pick up an infant ward in his travels? Rathain? Is Arithon protecting Cosach's heir maybe? Before Asandir could sanction the babe? Rathain's royal line is certainly in dire jeopardy, yet Asandir did not give his sanction to the heir apparent. Was the still unborn child in IT going to be the next Caithdein maybe?

   By Julie on Monday, June 08, 2015 - 01:36 pm: Edit Post

You would think Cosach would know about the kid then and how would Arithon wind up with it? I think this ward and trouble in Rathain are unrelated. Also the blond twins from Ships of Merior while not official wards seemed to function as such and were never considered Arithon's heirs.
What would be the difference to the Curse if Lysaer and Daliana were married or lovers?

   By Annette on Monday, June 08, 2015 - 11:55 pm: Edit Post

I would think Lysaer would be ashamed of himself and hate himself even more, if he were to sully the innocent Daliana by having her as a mistress. He loves her, he would marry her, same as he would not bed Talith before they were married. And he has already flirted with a repeat of what he did to his second wife.

I do not think Lysaer is like Arithon, to be content having a platonic relationship with the woman he loves. She has survived his worst, he has already tried to kill her, leave her to his fanatics, and just plain dump her to go off to war. She has not deserted him or given up her faith in him and has proved her worth. No reason not to marry her if she can get him to settle down somewhere.

The infant is Arithons ward, he has the child with him, the Shaman's seem to be protecting both. So the child would have talent, and be important. The only upcoming birth we know of is Jalienne's, Cosach's wife. The other possibility is a s'Lornmein, to safeguard Havish's royal lineage if Havish fell. But how would anyone get a babe of that lineage to Arithon? Cosach has been trailing Arithon from Rathain, to Melhalla and back to where they are in Havish. A long way from Telamndir, unless Havish has already fallen and the survivors were sheltering in Ettinmere settlement.

Arithon was in Rathain, that seems a more likely location, or even Melhalla, a caithdein's heir from there, or maybe a s'Brydion. But we have heard of no conflict in Melhalla. Arithon is more closely tied to Rathain's clans, and he has already sacrificed a lot to save the s'Valarient lineage once. I am thinking he might be saving them from something else this time.

"Or why haven’t the Seven bestirred themselves to snatch my infant ward from the insular bosom of Ettinmere settlement?”

Why would they? To sanction the child for something? Tysan's next Caithdein is sanctioned, and Arithon has not been to Shand, that leaves 3 kingdoms, Rathain, Melhalla and Havish. All three could be in danger of losing a ruling regent or royal lineage. But only one would need a sanctioned heir if Arithon's life was in danger. Arithon seemed to be goading Cosach with that possibility.

It is strange Asandir never sactioned Cosach's heir Esfand, who is still only heir designate. And Arithon gave that comment when speaking to Cosach about still being last of his line. Cosach is regent of Rathain in the absence of a crowned heir, the babe could never be Arithon's heir, has to be a blood relation to be that.

So what exactly was going on in that conversation? Arithon has spoken to Asandir and refused to be crowned it seems. He dared Cosach to disown him, but there is no one else to take his place.

Or is it that there is at least another royal to uphold the compact, even if an infant one? A s'Lornmein has always been in Havish, even while the other 4 royal lines went through the West gate. The s'Lornmein that stayed behind was born before Dari, who went through the gate last. Why did the s'Lornmein heir not go through west gate? There was no crowned royal while the other royals were banished, but would Asandir not still have sanctioned each s'Lornmein heir? Is the compact broken maybe if there is no Fellowship sanctioned royal on Athera? Cosach wants to drag Arithon off to a conflict that is likely to get him killed, would Asandir have to sanction Arithon's infant ward before Arithon dies? Whether a s'Valarient or a s'Lornmein?

Or it could be something else completely different, Janny is good at hiding things.

   By Dina on Tuesday, June 09, 2015 - 07:47 am: Edit Post

Annette, I haven't had a chance to respond, so it will seem like I'm going backwards a little. Apologies in advance.

Externally, Lysaer will seem charming, handsome, dazzling, etc. He's had years to perfect that public persona. It would be ideal to see evil or bad character reflected externally, but that's not the case. All too often, a very rotten core is concealed by the most charming of exteriors. An innocent earl's daughter sheltered all her life from a true interaction with another person, especially a male person, will not have the skills to identify these things. She'll see what she's meant to see: a handsome, charming prince.

One of the major themes Janny is weaving in this series, and I would say the core of the entire concept, is that appearances are deceiving. She's helping us to challenge commonly held beliefs, asking us to question the obvious and delve beneath the surface for truth.

I believe Lysaer as a fractured, abusive man, incapable of showing honest, pure love because of his emotional scars, inhibitions and insecurities is a poignant vehicle for that. Having these be his character flaws as they have been for untold men (and women) is a more honest character and a more valid lesson. I would say that it cheapens the value of the character to pin all his faults on the Curse as a deus ex machina. Sadly, in real life, people do not have this convenient excuse for their behavior.

You say Daliana is Lysaer's best chance, but I say Lysaer himself is his only chance for redemption. He's made a few attempts in the past to fight the curse. I give him credit for that, and I was really happy with what he did during Arithon's absence to rule fairly and evenly in Etarra.

On the other hand...he had 230-odd some years to find a solution to the Curse. Arithon did it in, what - 60, 70 years? Arithon actively looked for a cure and didn't rest until he found it. Lysaer was content to whine about what a victim he was but never really exerted himself to do anything. Yet another foil between the brothers.

If Lysaer wants to heal, he has to address the scars in his past and forgive himself for it, the way Arithon went through Kewar Tunnel (?, I'm a little sketchy on the exact name, but I'm referring to Davien's maze that makes a person relive his life through the lens of conscience). Something tells me that Lysaer would not emerge from that experience with his sanity intact.

That doesn't stop Lysaer from being one of my most favorite characters ever. I have learned much from him, but I am no longer dazzled by his flashy exterior.

   By Julie on Tuesday, June 09, 2015 - 11:50 am: Edit Post

Arithon was able to defeat the curse because he always knew it was there. His training since age 3 included stringent scanning of his physical, mental, and emotional being. His time with Davien including the maze elevated his powers and knowledge way beyond what he came to Athera with. THIS is what allowed him to take the chance in the King's glade where he was healed by Paravian grace.
But remember- he gave Dakar his own leash because he could not trust himself with the mistwraith still within him.
Lysaer never had an Iota of training, both his father's distrust of magic and Rauven's refusal to train (wonder what the back story is there- keeping the peace?). So he had none of the defenses Arithon had- this is repeated throughout the series. However in the rare times when the curse was totally dormant, Lysaer was able to express the truth - remember at the siege of Alestron? He tells Sulfen Evand that the feud was based on a childish jealousy- he is disgusted with himself. The 230 years that passed when Arithon was in captivity were not spent idle. It took months for the curse to finally take full control of Lysaer after Arithon's freedom. Earlier in the series he would have been beating the war drums much earlier. It will be interesting to see what state he is in when he recovers from Havish.I too find Lysaer the more interesting character, and I do not think he is rotten to the core!

The truce between Havish and the true sect was imposed under Fellowship auspices at the end of the last book, so I do not think Havish has fallen. Cosach has sought out Arithon to demand he stand with his people. This too has happened before in the series. It has nothing to do with the infant. Why do you think this child is anything more than an orphan of the Ettenmere?
And as far as Daliana and Lysaer- I am not sure it is really morality which would require a marriage before sex. Although Daliana loves him and is attracted to him, she was using sex as a tool of distraction. He sees her(and rightfully so) as a child- that is the innocence he would sully.

   By Dina on Tuesday, June 09, 2015 - 01:02 pm: Edit Post

Forgive me, I did not mean to imply that Lysaer is rotten to the core. After all, didn't he swoop down in righteous fury to rescue Daliana from an unfair trial and certain death? (I LOVED that moment!) You're right, as seasoned as she pretends to be, Daliana is still an innocent, and that type of grand gesture makes an impression on her.

I still think that Lysaer can do more. He can make a better effort, try harder. In his position, I would strive to learn the arts that were denied me if they would cause healing. Lysaer passively hides behind that fact like it's an excuse. Oh, I never learned; guess I can't do it. That seems like a cop out to me.

Just another example of how Arithon and Lysaer are products of their upbringing. Arithon actively pursues a solution, seeking to mold his circumstances to his benefit whereas Lysaer works more passively by adapting to the conditions he is dealt.

Which one is correct? Maybe both, maybe neither.

   By Auna on Tuesday, June 16, 2015 - 12:02 pm: Edit Post

Arithon is self-aware, Lysaer is self-delusional. It's going to be a lot harder for Lysaer to throw off the curse because he uses his gift as a crutch to justify his actions and the curse keeps nudging him to do that. Also, it would mean recognizing that all the wars he's fought and the people he's killed were done under false pretenses, so he shies away from acknowledging that which keeps him under the curse. He can do it, but he'll need loads of help and probably a good shrink once it's all over.

   By Dina on Tuesday, June 16, 2015 - 12:12 pm: Edit Post

Yes, what Auna said. :-)

   By Annette on Tuesday, June 16, 2015 - 10:45 pm: Edit Post

Lysaer's faults were pride and vanity neither that bad he deserved what that Mistwraith has done and will do to him. Lysaer had started to see things clearer before that Mistwraith ruined him. And since he was spell bound never to question his own gift of justice, the Fellowship is partly responsible, never mind that they failed to protect Lysaer when he needed it. He never had a chance of fighting that curse by himself. He is fighting it now only because he had arcane help, friendship and love.

And when Lysaer is free of the curse, he will no longer be blinded to conscience, and will realize he lead humanity down the path to damnation for a false cause. As well as the more personal cost of what he did to a half brother he loved. Morriel was wrong about which brother was the danger, Dakar has already mentioned Lysaer is at risk of madness or being a suicide. Once freed of the curse, Lysaer will judge himself if he remains sane, his prospects are not looking good.

From what the adept said, Lysaer will have to make a choice on something once free of the curse. He did promise to protect the townborn, they are likely to need protecting at that point.

How would Lysaer do at bargaining with a dragon?

   By Julie on Wednesday, June 17, 2015 - 11:53 am: Edit Post

I do not think Lysaer is self delusional, he knows that the war was based on a false cause and he is responsible. That he does not seem to suffer from self loathing and guilt as Arithon has is because he does not carry that searing empathy. Lysaer's apparent apathy is more of a coping mechanism- the loss of life in a misguided war requires him to find some way of balancing that with stability for those survivors and their future generations. That is Lysaer's other gift- statemanship

   By Julie on Wednesday, June 17, 2015 - 04:19 pm: Edit Post

I think Lysaer could probably hold his own with a dragon- he's awful stubborn

   By Annette on Wednesday, June 17, 2015 - 09:35 pm: Edit Post

I think it is more Lysaer's magnetic personality and way with words that might make him a suitable ambassador to argue a case for the ten fingered pests infesting Paravia. Mere stubbornness with a dragon would only get him crispy fried.

   By Annette on Thursday, June 18, 2015 - 05:29 am: Edit Post

Or if Lysaer still has use of his gift of light once freed of the curse, maybe he could mesmerize Seshkrozchiel with a sparkling light show long enough to talk her out of frying him and his followers.

Or there is the outside chance Lysaer might finally get something he has wanted for a long time, the knowledge to fully understand his gift of Light. Maybe Lysaer was never trained, because Mak s'Ahelas knew what he would become, under the influence of his fathers hatred, Arithon might be the one to pass on the knowledge Lysaer needs, once he is redeemed. What would Seshkrozchiel make of Lysaer then?

The effect Lysaer had on Cerebeld when they conversed over distance was interesting. A bit similar maybe to the effect Alithiel has when aroused? Dakar did muse a few thoughts some where, on where Lysaer draws his gift of light from. The Paravians also seem to have a similar affect on people. The irony, Lysaer did say once of the Paravians ‘What else would blind a man, or lure him from steadfast faith, than a rendition of shining compassion?’

Shining compassion describes a Paravian, but who was the shining light who lead humanity astray? Who lured them from steadfast faith?

   By Dina on Thursday, June 18, 2015 - 07:45 am: Edit Post

Ooh! Ooh! "Shining compassion" where Lysaer's gift of Light is "shining," and Arithon's hereditary geas of compassion is "compassion." Which brings us back to the very first premise in CotMW: Athera needed Arithon and Lysaer working in tandem to save it.

Perhaps that teamwork applies to charming dragons as well.

Otherwise, I was going to make a joke about Lysaer's silver tongue and charming a dragon being child's play.

   By Julie on Saturday, June 20, 2015 - 01:26 pm: Edit Post

Not sure how steadfast the faith was. Both town and clan held to timeworn rituals sourced from a belief in Ath creator. Sensitivity was inbred in what became the clans where as the townspeople accepted it in wise women and Ath's Adepts until the Mistwraith's capture,but the eruption of distrust and hatred of course being ignited by Davien. It seems from the pre stories that Athera's ruling class (the clans)were not any different from any other privileged members of any society. They did not have a monopoly on intelligence, creativity, or compassion. What they had were the talents to face the Paravians as ambassadors for humanity under the Compact.

Asander said in one of the books than the clans observe the rituals and ties to the Compact but do not really understand why.

It was pretty easy for Lysaer to sway the townsmen who were that much more removed from the basic reasons for the Compact.

   By Annette on Saturday, June 20, 2015 - 10:52 pm: Edit Post

Yet before Lysaer came along they still all believed in Ath Creator, now the townborn believe in a false religion and most of them still think Lysaer is an Ath sent avatar. They worship a false light, while Ath's adepts are shunned or driven out, thus further weakening the ties to Ath.

Ath and the compact are not the same, one is a faith in the mysteries and the prime source, one a set of rules to ensure mankind and Athera's mysteries both survive. The townborn have forgotten the old ways, and no longer abide within the rules of the kingdom charters which were drawn up to ensure their safety. They weaken Athera by their ignorant ways, and were bound to eventually break the compact, whether Lysaer lead them astray or not. Davien and the Mistwraith's curse have just speeded things up a bit.

While there was distrust of the clans since the rebellion, Ath's adepts, the herb witches and mage gifted healers and other mage talent was still welcome in most towns till Lysaer took a dislike to them. Now the only talent in the towns are the false religion's minions, who would not be working to strengthen Athera and her mysteries, and at worst would be another lot of necromancers siphoning life from Athera or from the people who trust them.

Athera's talent needs to be free, both the Koriani and the false religion is siphoning her born talent off to do harm. And Ath's Adepts would be getting fewer as the times get harder, few would join the white brotherhood, and like the Paravian's some adepts might lose hope and die. The clans follow most rituals by rote now, not really understanding the significance of them, but still they protect the free wilds, which would help keep a balance.

Havish has a lot of the townborn talent that fled Lysaer's persecution, as well as the descendents of the clan blood lines sent there to ensure their survival. Havish falls some of those talented bloodlines could be lost. Which further endangers the compact, and humanity's survival on Athera. Ath's adept at Althain said every mortal enclave on this continent would fall as victim to Lysaer's cause. That does not bode well for Havish, who is the only kingdom with a Fellowship sanctioned ruler fully empowered to defend the land and those who live there. Arithon has only the tie to the land, although he defends, he has not accepted kingship, and he is struggling just to survive. The compact requires both the clans, and a Fellowship chosen ruler to act as an intermediary. There was no king or queen that we or the townborn knew about during the 500 years most of the royals were banished from Athera, but there was always at least one royal Scion of Havish on Athera under the compact. No idea why that line was chosen to stay behind, but there could be a significant reason for it.

Havish's royal line has skipped generations due to the long rule of the queen that died in the last book. That might cause problems with the succession if the older ones have all died off and they lose the younger generation defending the kingdom as empowered rulers, or through the fighting, or the remaining ones are just too young to help.

And if the worst happens, Lysaer even though not sanctioned by the Fellowship to rule, could end up the last royal scion on Athera, and would by then be free of the curse, but outcast from the compact. I am wondering if being free of the compact and Fellowship sanction might be an advantage some how?

If the compact is broken by losing something irreplaceable, the Fellowship is bound by their original calling,to ensure Paravian survival the plan was to restore Athera's resonance by wiping out mankind if they threatened that survival. But how would that increase Athera's resonance once it has dropped? It was the high resonance of Athera they were trying to preserve, to ensure Paravian survival. Yet the Paravians can survive on the buffer worlds for a while, which are lower resonance worlds. Athera's resonance might drop temporarily and by some miracle recover after only a limited time. The Paravians would survive. What happens to humanity during that dark time? There would some where be a plan for humanities salvation.

We will have to wait and see what surprises Janny springs on us. Could be something completely different, that was just a very long bit of speculation.

   By Julie on Monday, June 22, 2015 - 11:40 am: Edit Post

We know that both humanity and mage craft survive. Unless there is another wave of space travelling remnants who make their way to Athera at a later date (not likely). We know really nothing about the later mage scholars of the future except their curiosity of (what will be) ancient history. So I am not concerned about Athera's energetically based eco system. As far as the towns are concerned, Tysan is the only place where the True Sect thrives and really only because of it's tyrannical policies. The other areas may follow the Sect during this renewed crusade not because of belief in their dogma, but as a way to save their own skins.
Now it is true that Lysaer's lightning bolts and the arcane shield raised in the protection of Havish made believers of some- most notably the Hatchet. He was however already a blood thirsty sadist.

   By Annette on Tuesday, June 23, 2015 - 07:51 pm: Edit Post

Even in Havish, where there is Fellowship sanctioned crown rule Lysaer's religion seems to have taken hold of the townborn if there was a screaming rabble on the docks at Torwent. No one in Havish should have had a reason to hate Arithon back then, but it is hard to stop the spread of a religion. Even though Arithon's plan for Shand was a success, it would seem likely Lysaer's false religion eventually got a hold down there as well, they just might not be as fanatical. Even after 250 years, they might still snicker away at some of the old stories and re-enactments concerning the religion of the Light and their priesthood.

The more militant off shoot of the original religion, the True Sect only has Tysan under their complete control, like the necromancers before them, they would have sent emissaries off to other kingdoms. Lysaer might burn a few temples in Tysan and have no affect on the True Sect, who would probably make Etarra their new home. Now would Lysaer burn Etarra to the ground? Might be doing some good if he did.

And once Lysaer becomes more active in controlling the religion he created, any non believers amongst the townborn would fall for the false light. Lysaer would probably take control of the situation rather than let the True Sect or Koriani direct the religion he created. Yet both seem to have no trouble controlling Lysaer, and with Daliana as the partner he loves, there would be the weakness Lysaer always thought his enemies would exploit. Lysaer was just confused about who his enemies really were.

The arcane shield raised to protect Havish, would not have made any more believers for the false religion, and would have separated a lot from it. Like the sleepers who awoke after hearing Caithwoods awakened trees, or those sleepers at Alestron many townborn who woke would not fight again.

The Hatchet was just too full of hate for the change to last. Be interesting to see if it helped Lysaer at all, or what he felt about it.
Lysaer's thoughts on such matters in the past might be of interest, he has given them a few times. Ath's hostel, the power that brought him Sulfin Evend, when Lysaer met the centaur's sending. What changed the dreamers who awoke after trying to burn Caithwood, or those who dreamed under the influence of Alithiel's song at Alestron?

What is it that the True Sect think are shadow touched heretical dreams?

   By Julie on Sunday, July 05, 2015 - 12:05 pm: Edit Post

It is not hard to amass a screaming rabble- look at sports events, pop idols, so called "talent" reality shows. The citizens were offered a spectacle at which they can vent their anger, and frustration. They were already under military control by the fanatical True Sect who kill anyone they consider heretical. This is not proof of conversion to that "religion".

Dakar severed the arcane link between Koriani and Lysaer at the end of Initiate's Trial. Of course Janny's stories are not usually so straight forward. Lysaer hates being controlled by anyone- he was constantly warned off the Koriani by Sulfen Evand. He will fight possession by them as he does the mistwraith. He is a proud man and has to solve problems on his own merits. While he claims to distrust any type of sorcery- his close encounters with arcane powers sourced by balance (truth, love, Ath)have given him pause- he did not dismiss those thoughts. They may be what has helped him so far on his path to redemption.

   By Annette on Tuesday, July 14, 2015 - 01:36 am: Edit Post

Lysaer created his false religion as a means to get them to hate Arithon and anyone possibly connected with him, that was the real purpose of creating it in the first place, to make it easier to kill Arithon. Torwent's people seem to have got that bit real quick, True Sect had only just gained control of the town. The unreasoning hatred would probably be enough, no need to get into cantrips and prayers to the light. Once infected with that hatred, it might just smoulder away, even though crown rule is continued in Havish. Crown rule would be connected with Shadow, what might blaze up with a little more encouragement?

How did the Koriani start the rebellion against the high kings in the first place? How did they raise enough hatred and greed to cause a bloodbath? They are good at warping people though emotion, look at what they did to Jaelot's guard captain, or the s'Brydion brothers. There is only one kingdom under Fellowship chosen crown rule now, and Selidie Prime would go to any lengths to break the compact. Morriel was prime the last time the townborn rebelled against crown rule, and Selidie is no where near as sane as Morriel once was. And it is not hard to amass a screaming rabble willing to murder the innocent for blind faith. Both our history and Paravia's has plenty of examples.

The Koriani never attempted to possess Lysaer, just strengthen the influence of the curse to get him to do what they wanted. It was the necromancers who aimed for possession. Lysaer is unlikely to fall for that trap again, but there will be other ways to control him. From Sethvir's warning to Lysaer it does seem like Lysaer will gain enough control of the curse to not want Arithon dead, yet be powerless to prevent it. What weakness did Lysaer think his enemies would use against him? How did Selidie get Arithon under her control?

   By Julie on Tuesday, July 14, 2015 - 11:49 am: Edit Post

Not sure if Torwent's people really "hate" Arithon or the misery inflicted under the True Sect. Mob rule is ugly no matter the provocation and human beings seem primed for it. If the Sect did not give Torwent's populace a scapegoat to vent their anger at, they are more likely to be faced with revolt at some point. The people of Tysan (if our glimpse during the last book is any indication) live under tyranny- their adherence to the Light appears more for survival in a barely viable land than any real devout feelings. The True sect wield sorcery (backed by a better fed military) to suppress the masses- not much different than any brutal dictatorship.

   By DarthJazy on Wednesday, July 15, 2015 - 06:22 pm: Edit Post

I think I need to do a reread of said book

   By Annette on Wednesday, July 15, 2015 - 09:29 pm: Edit Post

Athera has only one religion, and every where but Havish, anyone else who might have opposed it, has been removed, oppressed, ostracized or killed.

Arithon was set up as the scapegoat to take the blame for the havoc caused by the change in the flux and the madness that caused. Apart from the mayhem and fires caused by his escape at Torwent, he used Shadow to put out the fires. A hysterical populace eager to burn him, is not likely to take being covered in shadow well, no matter that it was to help them. And then that paragon of virtue Lysaer went and showed off his bright light to further blind people, they fall for him every time. Cannot say either Light or Shadow is a myth now, both have been seen. If belief in Lysaer's false religion had not already taken hold in Havish, the events of the last book would change that.

And on Lysaer's feeling of self worth, once he is free of the curse and realizes the truth of what he has done and the innocents he was responsible for murdering. Think of how Arithon responded when he realized he had struck down Caolle. While in the grip of the curse, he only saw Caolle as an enemy. Heart and soul of compassion that Arithon is, he felt nothing but hate and blood lust. Lysaer never had the training to resist that curse, and compassion is a lot more lenient than justice.

Why were Lysaer's hands burned when he helped imprison the Mistwraith? Think about it.

And when you re-read the books, look for the true Lysaer hidden in those pages, because the killer without a conscience is not who he is. He never had a chance of fighting that curse by himself.

   By DarthJazy on Thursday, July 16, 2015 - 02:07 pm: Edit Post

i fully agree with you Annette I firmly believe that Lysaer is the sacrificial lamb for everything that the F7 was to accomplish and god forbid they ever put Lysaer above Arithon but if they did they may never get their precious black rose prophecy. I can also see the F7 blaming Lysaer for humans breakign the contract and being thrown off athera so that humanity may stay.