(Seems my other post poofed....)
With regards to Arithon receiving absolution in Davien's maze by the centaur...
Does the Paravian have the ability to give absolution to overtake the guilt/compassion imbedded with ARithon.
Can a Paravian absolve anyone of any guilt by deciding to do so?
How does this correlate with Ath's forgiveness?
Since you posted this in the "author's corner," were you intending to ask this as a direct question, posed to me? Or were you posing your musing to the rest of the forum in general?
If you wish to ask me, please address the question to me by name - and I will gladly answer - just so you understand that I don't jump in without specific reference, in respect for the discussions between fans, as others might wish to speculate without undue steering from me.
Ah Sorry Janny.
Ive noticed you said that a few times since I posted this, just reading through the board since I found it.
Yes, It is addressed to you
Myrlin - then, you asked.
"give absolution" is somewhat of an erroneous concept, given Athera's paradigms.
Absolution must first be claimed BY the individual, who will first have to arrive at the (self-imposed) limitation: that the Belief that they were flawed was a self-chosen state of mind. The change from that belief - would shift that person into the state called "absolution."
Why is this "tricky?" - because in the state of belief of limitation (flawed self) the actualized reality would show - and Arithon would see, therefore - himself as flawed. His experience would follow the free will choice of his self imposed state of limitation.
In the presence of a Paravian - who stands as the living bridge to the prime vibration (Ath) - it would be "easier" to shatter the limited belief - since the prime vibration (state of whole being) would NOT reinforce that flawed self image.
Therefore: the presence of the centaur allowed Arithon to see more clearly and - by his own choice to reach - to break through the limited belief that a flaw in the self could not be healed or forgiven - or that state of belief that created his "guilt" could ever transit to a state of healed self acceptance.
He claimed his own beingness as whole - in the presence of the living bridge to the prime vibration (Ath) and that confluence of choice and energy arrived at a transformation to healing.
Complex, I realize, but - this IS what you asked, and I prefer to keep the paradigms clear, since all of the books are predicated upon them.
TK will make this fine point clear - though it will not shine through with clarity IF a reader imposes their own rigid belief system upon the story....that projected "set" of predetermined beliefs can twist what you "see" on the page.
Interesting. It is a completely refreshing way of analyzing existence without self imposed rules/laws which stem from religious beliefs which are and are not skewed by years of translation and misguideness.
I am wondering if you were influenced in this paradigm and by what. Existentialism would not fit since there is a prime "vibration" which would put the individual in contact with a higher power. However, it does appear there are influences in the creation of your world that make me interested.
Your last pt makes perfect sense.
My ability to slip free of my day to day beliefs when I read allows me to enjoy the universe in which I submerge myself in. Opening one's mind to variants on what is "Accepted" truly helps in understanding philosophical ideals.
Thanks for the answer I was looking for!
This is more of an observation than a question.
Having read and read WofL&S over the previous few years, I have altered my evaluation of Lysaer whom I would have seen 'lose'. However I find my sympathies more with Lysaer as the books go on, not wrt mass destruction he causes but due to his slide into the abyss. I think the appropriate quote would be 'the road to hell is paved with good intentions'. If Arithon has a truelly compassionate nature, then he would have forgiven Lysaer and try to restore his half brother to his former self prior to the Mistwraiths intervention.
I think Arithon will forgive Lysaer more then the other way around. I think that's what will happen in the end that Arithon will save Lysaer and I think Arithon has said a few times that he know's Lysaer's actions aren't his own, but I can sympathize with Arithon as well after all Lysaer has done to him even before the curse. I was glad they were brothers for a short time and wish they could have continued that relaitonship before the curse struck. I sympathize with Lysaer and hope somehow he can be saved from that curse in the end. I don't think Arithon can get close to Lysaer for fear the curse would overwhelm him and cause him to destroy Lysaer instead of help him. That's why he runs away so frantically from Lysaer so they don't meet for fear of what he'd do to his brother. Just my observation though not sure if it's right.
If i am correct, i believe that the Curse does not impel Arithon any more and Arithon has gained mastery over the geas of compulsion through his Masterbard's gift....(in PG when he was in Kewar Tunnel, he emulates the grand chord through his masterbard's training and gains mastery over the curse). I remember reading (on the boards?)that the curse has not been completely taken away or destroyed, but that Arithon now knows how to control it and dispell its effects.
As for Lysear.... that is a curly one....I think that Arithon will undoubtably forgive Lysear for his actions because Lysear was/is consumed by the geas. However, the question is...."Will Lysear forgive himself and therefore claim his own mastery over the Curse?"
Lysear had a very real possibility of being free from the Curse when he visited Ath's Hostel and was asked to step in to the pool...we know what happened there. The problem rests solely with Lysear and he has to realise HIMSELF that he is being used by the Curse. (in much the same way that Arithon realised that his own actions were coloured by the geas).
As for a meeting between Lysear and Arithon....i'd like to see that. I have the image that Arithon will use his masterbard's gift to dispel the Curse, and possibly in that brief time, Lysear will "truly" understand what is going on.
I wonder how much the necromantic magic has had an affect on Lysear's character and whether this has worsened the effects of the curse???
I think the pool incident was still that curse totally obsessing him I hope if he does get free of it I think he will surprise us. Should be a good ending, but I'm not in a hurry for it Janny. Take your time. grin
Somehow I think that Lysear will not ever be free of the Curse, because the WoLaS go on for 500 years if i am not mistaken....
I just hope that Lysaer won't--if/when he reaches a brief moment of clarity--throw himself off a cliff or something, due to the enormity of deaths he's caused. His Gift of Justice just *might* demand his life for the many other lives....
Even though it's maybe a little silly, I'd soooooo love it if Lysaer were somehow redeemed! Arithon too, of course (with Elaira). I just love fantasy for the hope it usually leaves me with...good will prevail and so on :D I am aware, however, that Janny might not want to follow a beaten path that obviously, so I'm just waiting with bated breath!
I really don't see Lysaer killing himself for the deaths he did while under the curse. Maybe Arithon or Elaira will be able to heal him emotionally as well as physically. That's how I see it ending. Not sure if Janny see's it that way, but it would be a nice ending anyway. At the end of 500 years it has to end and I wonder how it will.
Well if the prologue to CotM is anything to go by, the problem does not seem to be resolved.. and it would seem that people in the future (in the fifth age?) come to the realisation that Arithon was not that bad....Considering how long the other ages where and that the characters are currently in the third age, it would seem that the issue is going to hang around for a LONG time.
(Unless ofcourse, all the Lysear followers are sent off world for breaking the compact and come to their realisations only much later....)
I find it intereting, that in the CotM prologue, Arithon is mentioned by name - but the battle is against the Light. Lysear is NOT specificaly mentioned. Knowing that Janny never does anything unintentionally,I wouldn't be surprised to find that Lysear is not battling Arithon for 500 years. The "religion" he started and it's followers (read Cerebold, etc)may be the ones Arithon has to deal with. Lysear may die (and things don't look too good for him in the sneak peak we read) or he may come to realize tht he has been manipulated by the curse and work against the movement he set in motion.
just a few rambing thoughts......
I always thought that "the Light" was synonymous with Lysear...altough on second thought it may also be synonymous with the "Alliance of Light".
I feel confused now...
I have just re-read the Prologue to CotM. The reference is to the "Lord of Light". Do doubt about it, the war is going to go on for 500 years. It will be interesting to see how it pans out. Considering that we are about 60 years in and have had about 6 books so far...i suspect that the series will most probably go on for about another 18 books! :p
.....Not that I'm complaining.....
George - that is my point exactly..it says "Lord of Light", NOT Lysear.....but she does name Arithon specifically. I'm thinking there is something to that......
Care to comment, Janny??? didn't think so! ;-)
Frankly, I never liked Lysear before the Curse struck, much less now that he been taken by the Curse. Although, I did start to like him a little between the meeting with the clans and the time the curse struck.
I don't fault Arithon as much as Lysear for his actions in the war because he doesn't give into the Curse willingly. Where is the fight to stop the bloodshed or to reduce it from Lysear? Plus Lysear has been given two chances already to at least acknowledge that what he has been doing may not be totally correct and he has 'failed' at both.
If Arithon has found the cords to give him his freedom, can he find the cords to give Lysear his? I assume that the music to free Lysear is different because they are two different people and the curse had to work differently to affect each brother. (Compassion and Justice are not the same...Although there should be some commonality since they should share some gift of Foresight). So how could Arithon work on the music if he can't get near Lysear...or can he control the curse enough to hid in Lysear's camps and work on it?
I also don't believe that the battle will be totally against Lysear. He is becoming more of a weapon than an actual leader. It probably won't be long until he is just a figurehead and other factions actually have control. Lysear is currently to sunk in the curse to way anything other than how to kill Arithon. Much less see the Political/Magical tangle he has unleashed.
Here's a thought from left field that just came to me: What if Arithon spends 500 years trying to counter Lysaer's image with the townsfolk as a "god"?
When Arithon's not curse-driven, we've all seen that he doesn't really have anything against Lysaer as an "individual".
It could take 500 years for the common folk to lose their misinterpretation of the cause of Lysaer's extended longevity. Coincidentially, the 500 years in the Prologue is exactly equivalent to the amount of time Davien's fountain extended Lysaer's life in COTM.
We know coincidences don't happen by accident.
There's a possibility in there somewhere that Lysaer will never change his mind, but death will catch up with him eventually - he's not immortal.
Even if Arithon fails, it would seem that Lysaer has to die eventually. (Without a deeper understanding of magecraft, it seems unlikely he should live longer than the 500 years, unless he either has another drink from Davien's fountain or is bound by a great drake like the F7 were - neither of which seem likely).
On the plus side, this interpretation would not exclude the possibility of Arithon and Elaira surviving until the end of Arithon's extended lifespan either. (Both half-brothers could live out their lives in the manner they chose,
Isn't the wildcard something? We all concentrate too much on Arithon, rather than extrapolate what we know about Lysaer's stubbornness to accept character change.
Even if Arithon were to die the Light religion may not admit it as by feeding people's fears gives them control over people. Saw a program on Stalin and the USSR the other week - they said that they didn't want news of Hitler's death leaking out to the Russian people for much the same reason
What i want to know is how long is an 'age'? The seerers of the 7th age look back in history and examine the occurrences of the 3rd age....what is the deal there? is that like 40,000 years in to the future? or are ages determined by world changing occurrences?
The other thing i think we can imply from the prologue is that the mistwraith is eventually destroyed and so is the incursion from Marak.
Given in the Seventh Age we know the Religion of Light has survived and flourished, and that Lysaer is still painted as the "divinity incarnate" and Arithon "a servant of evil" - from the prologue - this also means that mankind is still on Athera as there is a reference to the council stair at Etarra.
If humanity is still on Athera, either they've reconciled with the Paravians or Paravian survival has been assured and the Paravians have moved on elsewhere and potentially bequeathed Athera to humanity. Paravian survival would also seem the completion of the Fellowship's purpose and they too would be free to move on, the Compact by then may be irrelevant and humanity could move as they will.
I'm wondering whether Arithon mightn't turn his attention to ensuring the survival of the Paravians, completion of the Fellowship's purpose and then exit stage left, having completed his purpose and service to Athera despite his continually harrassment by the dark cabal bent on breaking the Compact??
Whether Lysaer is redeemed or not is not especially relevant although Arithon's compassion would drive him to achieve that if at all possible to reconcile with the only blood relation he has on Athera - unless of course he uses more of his mage powers to contact people beyond the veil as he did in Kewar.
From the map of Athera, we are seeing the Paravian continent during 'The Age of the Mistwraith'. From this I think we can extrapolate that the third age will end with the final resolution (note I didn't say defeat as I'm not willing to guess how this all resolves) of Desh-thiere. So it is likely that events trigger an age change. This might mean that one age could be significantly shorter than the next.
I alway thought the ages were define by historical changes rather than timespans.
Era of The Drakes.
Then The Paravians arrive, 1st Age begins.
The Fellowship are summoned by Drake Dream, 2nd Age begins.
The remenants of Humanity arrive and are permitted to settle on Athera, 3rd Age begins.
Just a thought on a comment ye dropped,
I doubt it would be likely that anyone,
including Lysaer and Arithon, would be
able to even attain access to Davien's
Five Centuries Fountain as the West Gate
(?) was attuned at some stage to be a
one-way gate, (if memory serves), to allow
the security and survival of the Clans
who chose exile through the Gate.
If I remember, they left to the desert planet,
and then on through to the Splinter World,
to have the door closed behind them to all
who would wish to follow, but with the option
to return should they so wish it.
I also think that the Rauven (sp?) Mages would
have understood this.
A question for Janny, which may end up being
Since the worlds past the Gates are referred
to as "Splinter Worlds", would I be right to
assume that they answer to Ath's creation, and
therefore are linked through to Athera in that
respect, henceforth allowing the Great Drakes
and the Paravians contact and 'authority' over
the lands beyond;
And what is the status of the Gates? Was my
earlier speculation on the West Gate correct,
and what of the North and South Gates, if I
remember Marak being off through the East Gate?
*sigh* That didn't come out as I'd hoped, so
maybe Janny will see through my haze as she has
so many times and reveal the answers within my
Blessings to all,
P.S. <b>Janny ::</b>
I read <i>somewhere</i> that ye have a poster-
sized map of Athera on your wall in your
*affix room-name where your writing is done*...
Is it possible that ye would consider ever
making this into an accessible work of art,
or even a buyable piece? I would love to have
Athera framed at my house as it seems to me
the most hospitable place for my mind from
all Fantasy worlds I've encountered...
(With Pern being a close second *smiles*)
Just thought I'd ask as I've been thinking
about it for years, and thought I'd try.
*doesn't like his chances though*
I believe the West Gate was sealed to prevent Desh-thiere going through into the worlds beyond after the Princes were sent into exile.
As to a map of Athera, Meisha Merlin is working on the idea. There's a thread somewhere here about it.
Laneth - You Asked - there was, very recently, a post in depth concerning the splinter worlds and the creation of the Gates by the Fellowship Sorcerers....I think your question would be well answered there...any body recall which thread?
Here is a question for Janny.
I was wondering if you had considered putting your books into an audio formatt or if you have where might I purchase them. I know that the text itself will always have bring an element that audio never will but it would still be really nice for those of us with seeing problems.