Aritthon & the land

Janny Wurts Chat Area: General Discussion: Aritthon & the land
   By Catherine Britt on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 11:44 pm: Edit Post

Hi everyone

Am new to this board. Have really enjoyed reading all the comments and explanations. It has been really great. I have been re-reading the books again and wondered if somebody could comment on TK - in the necromancy scene where he liberates himself by claiming his autonomy.

He was the land, and the land was his very self. ... the same forces that knit Athera herself underwrote his unencumbered autonomy.

Does this mean that now not only Rathain but all of Athera would recognise his signature? I hope someone understands what I am trying to ask.


   By Blue on Monday, April 23, 2007 - 03:18 pm: Edit Post

Hi Catherine!

Some spoilers below...

"Arithon and the land were one" is something that makes a great deal of sense, so no need for apologies.

It would seem that the F7 (Fellowship of Seven, that is) would originally have tied him only to Rathain, but I think your theory that ALL of Athera is going to recognize him is a good one.

He seems to be going leaps and bounds past any predictions of his innate talent and creativity, as evidenced in Traitor's Knot

***Here be SPOILERS, for those who have not read TK***

when he defeated the Kralovir at Etarra, by his OWN means, rather than calling on any of the F7 for help.


   By Catherine Britt on Monday, April 23, 2007 - 10:42 pm: Edit Post

Thank you Blue

I am sorry if I didn't attach any notice of spoilers when I asked the question.


   By Trys on Wednesday, May 02, 2007 - 05:12 pm: Edit Post

As an FYI, spoilers warning are no longer strictly required as the book has been out for sometime now. However, if anyone wants to continue using them that's ok too. :-)


   By Blue on Wednesday, May 02, 2007 - 09:25 pm: Edit Post

Sorry, Trys, force of habit. :-O

And no, Catherine, I was not trying to chastise you.


   By Catherine Britt on Monday, May 07, 2007 - 07:41 pm: Edit Post

Thanks Blue

Blue have been re-reading Cofm. Asandir describes the lost art of name binding. It is oneof the defenses of the Riathon. Arithon has now regained that lost art hasn't he? What do you think?


   By Blue on Monday, May 07, 2007 - 08:33 pm: Edit Post

Well, anything is possible since he went through what had to be the most drastic therapy in existence in Kewar. "In order to heal this infected papercut, we'll to have to use a chainsaw." is what that struck me as being. :-O

Of course, considering how stubborn our Master of Shadow can be, perhaps he did need the equivalent of a two by four upside the head to realize that yes, he is a decent guy after all, and being human, he WILL make mistakes.

The question is, though, what was Asandir referring to being Name bound? I know they use Name a lot when performing Grand Conjury, but Name-Binding might be something that only Paravians can do, and something specific to the Riathan.

I wonder if Name Binding could be something that might be getting something to admit to its Name in the first place, and perhaps it will have to do with reassuring that thing (be it a biological entity or non-biological entity) that it will be used in harmony, and with respect to its free will.

Hey, you posed a great question, Catherine! Maybe Janny wouldn't mind putting in her $.02 worth sometime?


   By Janny Wurts on Tuesday, May 08, 2007 - 11:13 am: Edit Post

my .02 cents worth on the art of Name Binding (what ever it is or isn't) - you'll be getting an indepth view in the coming arcs. (grin)


   By Blue on Tuesday, May 08, 2007 - 05:22 pm: Edit Post

That's what I get for being cheap, I guess!

Of course, would you even give a straight answer and spoil things if I had the cash in hand and asked for your $20,000.00 worth on the subject, Janny? ;^)


   By Winter on Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 10:46 am: Edit Post

I don't have the book handy so can't check the context. But could Name Binding be the act of giving name to a created object? Like the naming of Alithiel? Something would have had to make the sword from being a collection of individually named components into a single Named entity. Giving a constructed object a name (binding it, so to say) would make it more powerful unto itself. The towers of Ithamon had names and powers of protection that corresponded to the named virtue.


   By Trys on Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 01:59 pm: Edit Post

Name binding may be the act of binding someone by way of their name. Perhaps this his how wraiths on Marak are bound together?


   By Catherine Britt on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 04:20 am: Edit Post

All of those make some sense. The condition of sentience with Alithiel makes sense but does not seems to allude to a sense of restraint.

On reading WoWast - with jilieth,with that injured boy in SoMm and Arithon in Traitor's knot I was left more with a feeling of not being able to cross the Wheel to arise into completion with ath's creation. The wraiths definitely appear to be restrained in their completion of passing over.

In Christian rites spirits are exorcised and their names have to be known to have power to make them move on. Anyway have to wait for the next books


   By Angus on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 08:41 am: Edit Post

Catherine:

I would have to disagree about Christian rites of exorcism, given the multitude of Christian denominations. Whereas the more liturgical churches (Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican (high, not low), etc.) may have specific requirements and rules of exorcising spirits, etc., the protestant and evangelical churches do not. In fact, the protestant churches, when they formed, attempted to re-create the first century churches and rely wholly on scripture.

Rites of exorcism, argue protestants, are not based on the scriptures of either the New or Old Testaments. Also, human spirits, it is believed, move on immediately. If their name is written in the Book of Life (i.e. if they believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and that he died for their sins, and they have asked forgiveness for those sins, and accept Jesus as their saviour) they go to Heaven. If not, they go to Hell, which is defined as eternal separation from God. I won't even talk about Purgatory, which the Protestants say does not exist and the Catholics say does.

Therefore, the only "spirits" involved in exorcism are evil or demonic spirits, i.e. not human. Jesus, in the gospel, had the power to send a demon horde, whose name was Legion, out of a man and into a herd of pigs, who then drowned themselves in the Sea of Galilee (Lake Tiberius, now). It is not certain that the demon needs to be named, except perhaps in liturgical rites. The Protestants/Evangelicals invoke the name of Jesus Christ to bind evil spirits, to banish them by the power of Jesus' blood, and to refill the places that the spirits occupied (always within a person, not a place) with the Holy Spirit.

The point of this long ramble is, is that Jesus' (as part of the Triune God - Father, Son and Holy Spirit) power over evil spirits is absolute. Because the believer does not know the name, he invokes God's power, who knows everything and is omnipotent. Thus, God knows the name, and simply by the faith of the believer, the evil spirit is cast into Hell.

Perhaps this may be a clue to how the names are discovered? Ath, to date, is only a name in this story. Could perhaps Ath be more powerful than simply a creator God who does some stuff and then just watches to see how it all plays out? Could he step in and help with naming? So far, Ath looks like a watcher, not a doer (though he did create the Paravians to fix the messes the drakes made). What an annoying kind of diety.

The God of the Judaism, Christianity and Islam (which they all believe is the same, but with hugely differing characteristics) is an active god, who intervenes through the faith and trust of his believers. It is when they act in their own strength and ignore God and his teachings that everything gets messed up, which explains the atrocities committed in the name of Jehovah, Jesus Christ and Allah over the last three or four millenia.

Anyway, that is way more than my 2 cents.


   By Matthew on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 09:59 am: Edit Post

Weren't the paravians failing at the job they were given tho? because the Fellowship had to be summoned to combat the drakespawn that were massacring them =/ or am i wrong?

and on the subject of Alithiel... several components welded into one and given a name for the sum of parts... like.. the Fellowship?


   By DarthJazy on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 10:19 am: Edit Post

welll if the paravians would have just revealed the name of the mistwraith none of this would be happening right now.


   By Angus on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 10:29 am: Edit Post

DarthJazy:

Isn't that view a bit simplistic? Also, the mistwraith does not have just one Name. It is an entity of teeming millions.

Besides, if the Paravians revealed the names then we wouldn't have this great story to read.

Hey Matthew, watch your back. The Storm is coming, buddy, and it's coming soon. WoLaS fans from across the globe are converging on Sydney for vengeance against the privileged one who gets the advance read...

IT WILL BE MINE!!! 'Course, then they'd all be after me. Time for some strategery.


   By Matthew on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 11:36 am: Edit Post

Fortunately? or is it unfortunately.. i'm not that evil bookreader person *sharpens knives, heats irons, does other torturery (not a word :-( ) nonsense* *


   By Angus on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 01:06 pm: Edit Post

Stategery isn't a word either. It's a joke from Saturday Night Live, circa fall 2000, at the expense of George Dubya Bush. Sorry if that's a bit obscure.


   By Matthew on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 01:18 pm: Edit Post

*soaks up the knowledge like a spongery thing*


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