The relationship of Davien and the F7

Janny Wurts Chat Area: General Discussion: The relationship of Davien and the F7

   By Sue Boulton on Sunday, October 02, 2005 - 01:29 pm: Edit Post

Just some thoughts;

I feel the F7 is doomed to fail.

Reasons,

They are who they are.

As I see it;

We can change or try to change "who we are" by atoning and acting contrary to how we did It does not change that small part of us inside that causes us to approach life and what is around us in a certain way. We might act for good or ill, but the drive to act; the way we act is not altogether polar opposites.

What the F7 were and what they did coloured the reasons why they chose (and was also the reasons why they were chosen) to become what they are now. That, is as I see it now not one binding but two. They are bound by the restrictions placed on them when they were chosen, also by their own thoughts and reasons behind accepting. So while both seem to be in harmony, they are not, they are layers of reasons that can conflict at various junctures. This means that at times they will fail; each failure will affect both bonds in different ways, increasing one, weakening the other. The whole affect would be come twisted and out of true with what they desire to happen.

Perhaps Davien sees the twisting, the failure and was hoping to create a new bond, a different way of keeping the promise made, but not by the F7, by someone else or perhaps the human race as a whole. So that would be the F7’s failure, but also their freedom.


   By Susan C on Sunday, October 02, 2005 - 01:51 pm: Edit Post

When you say the F7 are doomed to failure, I assume you mean in up holding the compact. The Drake's binding will cause them to destroy mankind-which would be acting in accordance to the binding. However, if that happens they would fail in their own minds-they would fail to preserve mankind. But that isn't their purpose according to the Compact and to the Drake's binding.


   By Róisín on Monday, October 03, 2005 - 05:39 am: Edit Post

Would the Paravians have left anyway, as the entropy of human endeavour would have effected what the Mistwraith did, only over a longer time? Were the clans always going to be an effective stopgap?

I had to wonder - how arrogant of Halduin, Torbrand etc... to bind their progeny to that job. I can't see that as free will. For example, Jeynsa becomes 'possessed of her father's heart' and starts to run all over Athera in order to test her Prince.

The geas is as much a compulsion as the Mistwraith. Anything forced causes imbalance which engenders its own destruction so that the natural equilibrium is maintained. That's what Davien sees.

Arithon has managed to master both. (And Kevor...?)

Just some thoughts.


   By Neil on Tuesday, October 04, 2005 - 03:04 am: Edit Post

Ooh the poor F7 - they're getting a bashing here from Sue :-)

Every human in this tory is flawed...Kharadmon makes a comment to Dakar (something like) that Ath creator does not expect it's creation to spring perfect into the world and that one should be thankful!

Whether the compact can be maintained is up in the air. Davien believes not it seems and the F6 have committed themselves to trying.

I guess Arithon may be in a position to help them? Maybe he should be looking for the drakes rather than the paravians...but he's currently concerned with clan-town peace and the F6 consider this priceless (and Arithon has Davien's support too...curious)

I don't think the clan forefathers acted in arrogance...I suspect that they did not have a choice really: cosy planet v. cold outer space...they acted to protect the masses I would guess out of a sense of duty and one line asked did refuse... but they DID have a choice...but the royal lines "tied for all time" (or something like that) is no light matter(FP Lysaer interview with F5)


   By Trys on Tuesday, October 04, 2005 - 04:17 am: Edit Post

Please be careful not to post spoilers in non-spoiler topics. One of the comments above it very close to being a spoiler.


   By Sue Boulton on Tuesday, October 04, 2005 - 01:19 pm: Edit Post

Not a bashing ;)

Just thinking.... The F7 have extended life. How does this affect their mental process, how they react to things? Same goes for Arithon and Lysaer. Do they think like a 50 year old?

Thinking at that age is not so much a matter of biological age, but what you have experienced. It affects and colours everthing you do, the memories, the mistakes, the good and bad times. You become "set" in your ways. Even if you admit you don't know everything, you can and do act like you do, then get hit upside the head when things go wrong.

Just the thought of the memories the F7 are carrying around in their heads makes my mind ache. *grin*

I just feel all that baggage will affect their judgment in ways we can't even begin to see. It could make not not see the wood for the trees, if you pardon the expression.

Maybe that is what is needed another pair of eyes not burdened by the weight of the past to cut the gordian knot


   By neil on Wednesday, October 05, 2005 - 02:49 am: Edit Post

;-) Sounds good. Arithon's innovations ARE pleasing to the F7.

But I think that the F7 are very capable...they are no longer human...but they are "bound"...but with drake and paravian influences they have the edge over "just very old men"...

Davien seems very innovative...and Sethvir a risk-taker (albeit well calculated)...patience seems to be what they all have...and a "disrespect" for short-term thinking/solutions...


   By Neil on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 07:40 am: Edit Post

It's curious that Davien has critised the high kingdom system but has not yet suggested an alternative...presumably his way works too but with a different path / risks....if he could not persuade the F6 how has he persuaded himself?

They can all see the future probabilities...does each F7 judge the best way forward according to different criteria/weightings? Do they ever have to vote concerning group action (a bit like when humanity arrived?)


   By Myranda Rose on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 02:08 pm: Edit Post

Hmmm my 2cents worth is...

Davien as a member of the fellowship swore oath to protect athera, whatever the cost.

The humans on Athera were already I believe seperating into the clan born and the town born... war was inevitable. I think Davien saw the probabilty that the town born would grow weary of the clans and attack them, so he started the rebellion at a time when they would merely damage the clans, not wipe them out totally - since then the town folk take only a few clan born from time to time with the headhunters.

Because of his actions the fellowship were weakened and the Koriani have "prospered" perhaps over stretching themselves, the current Matriarch is obsessed with Arithon and that will likely lead to her downfall - he is mage trained and the master bard, in a battle of mages she'd not win, and she will try a direct confrontation - I belive in the final arc, where Elaira will discover she's able to throw off the shackles of the Koriani and use the powers she learned from the Aths Brotherhood to compliment Arithons and shatter the waystone thus freeing the Koriani to follow thier own path and help where ever they want, not where the order tells them too.

I believe the Mistwraith would have killed the paravians, the rebellion made them flee and so saved them from the terrible death they would have suffered at the hands of the mistwraith.

I also think that Arithons brother Lysaer is a handy pawn in Davens game - eventually support will wane and eventually many will side with Arithon and clan born Cathdiens, seeing that their way is a better (and safer) way... I think arc four we shall see Lysaer on the run... and Davien will have known...

Why do I think all these things? The augries that the F7 perform show them strands of the future, each branching for different decisions - I think Davien saw a string that lead to humanity giving up the town born life (or the town born being wiped out), the mistwraith gone (even the bits far from athera, we WILL see the rest of the free wraiths attack athera in the next few books) and the Paravians back in charge... Perhaps he even saw a time when the drakes released the F7 from thier obligation, which must at times seem like a prison sentance... hmmm we shall see

I should warn that wine influenced this post so it might not make sense


   By farm boy on Saturday, May 06, 2006 - 02:00 am: Edit Post

First time I have posted anything, so be patient with me...

One thing that has always intrigued me is that right at the start of COTM, it basically says that this story is the result of a scrying undertaken in the 10th(?) age. At that time, humans are still on Athera, Lysaer's religion is dominant and Arithon is regarded (by most) as evil incarnate...

Does this means that we know from the start that Arithon and the fellowship are doomed to failure? If Lysaer's religion is still around, then surely the paravians are not. But if the paravians have left, how do the priesthood have access to magic (I think somewhere it's written that if the paravians leave, all magical ties to the earth will break)?

In other words, do we already know the final outcome??


   By HJ on Saturday, May 06, 2006 - 03:44 am: Edit Post

I've wondered something similar for a long time...


   By motley on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 06:39 am: Edit Post

It does sound like in that age, they finally realise they don't have the whole story... and so go back to get it...

*spoiler* *spoiler* for TK

Lysaer did 'poison' the grove in SoM, but then Kevor helped to restore it by the end of TK. I think that's symbolic. Lysaer may start something imbalanced, but it may well become a 'new order' that looks after Athera in some way that does not require manipulation of traits as the F7 did with the clans.


   By motley on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 09:26 am: Edit Post

I wonder if Sulfin Evind will have anything to do with some kind of Alliance rebalancing act - as he has dedicated himself to being the only rational sane person 'at the breach' if ever Lysaer does go postal.


   By Annette on Monday, February 18, 2013 - 02:49 am: Edit Post


quote:


Posted by farm boy
One thing that has always intrigued me is that right at the start of COTM, it basically says that this story is the result of a scrying undertaken in the 10th(?) age. At that time, humans are still on Athera, Lysaer's religion is dominant and Arithon is regarded (by most) as evil incarnate...

Does this means that we know from the start that Arithon and the fellowship are doomed to failure? If Lysaer's religion is still around, then surely the paravians are not. But if the paravians have left, how do the priesthood have access to magic (I think somewhere it's written that if the paravians leave, all magical ties to the earth will break)?

In other words, do we already know the final outcome??




This is an old topic, but thought I would comment.

We already know the outcome in that Athera survives and humanity did not get itself toasted in the third age. If they survived to the seventh age they must be doing something right.

In the prologue, Arithon's name is known, Lysaer's is not, Arithon seems better known, presumably he survived longer, because he was not much at self promotion. We do not need a sneak peak at the seventh age to know what Lysaer's false religion thinks of Arithon, that they never changed is hardly surprising. Their temple archives survived to the seventh age, no mention was made of the religion itself surviving that long.

How likely is it these sages would be allowed to browse through the archives of some fanatical religion, if there were still priests around to guard them. These sages with obvious talent, who can through visions find out the truth by viewing the events as they happened. Lysaer's false religion would have burned them. If the temple archives attest to being the sole arbiters of truth, and the sages decided they would find out the truth for themselves, that says something about how reliable they thought that canon was. They were not swayed by Lysear's religion at all. Seems they had a more reliable way of finding out the truth.

So Athera survived, humanity survived, people with talent survived, and it seems likely they have a way to access the prime source, so Athera's mysteries survived and Athera is still a high resonance world.

Lysaers cursed fate failed to ruin Athera's destiny. So we might as well jump to the conclusion Arithon survived the third age.


Add a Message


This is a private posting area. Only registered users and moderators may post messages here.
Username:  
Password: