Archive through August 16, 2005

Janny Wurts Chat Area: General Discussion: Quick Question: Archive through August 16, 2005
   By Brenda Marshall on Wednesday, July 28, 2004 - 07:08 am: Edit Post

Is Arithon and Lysaer's age ever mentioned?


   By Beth on Wednesday, July 28, 2004 - 07:39 am: Edit Post

Not directly. But One thing I find hard to keep remembering is that Arithon is several years younger than Lysear. He just doesn't act like a younger brother. If anything Lysear is the one that if I didn't know better acts like a younger brother.


   By Neil on Wednesday, July 28, 2004 - 07:49 am: Edit Post

As of Peril's Gate they're in they're in their 50s now (?)

   By Blue on Wednesday, July 28, 2004 - 03:50 pm: Edit Post

Talera s'Ahelas-s'Ilessid took off on the night of Lysaer's third birthday, so he has to be at least four years Arithon's senior.

Beth, you're right in that Arithon acts much more mature.

Neil, you are right. When Jieret is talking to Arithon in the cave by the Aiyenne [sp?] it is mentioned that Arithon was 57 years old.

   By Blue on Wednesday, July 28, 2004 - 03:54 pm: Edit Post

Oooh, another quick question from me, and this might be something Janny would have to answer...

Havish, at the moment, is the only properly established [according to old kingdom charter] royal court in all of Paravia. We know the Kings [or Queen Regnants] wear the country's colors and symbols, and that the Caithdeins, in the presence of the sovereign, wear only unrelieved black. What is the wardrobe convention for the spouse of a Caithdein attending court? Would s/he wear black along with the Caithdein, or would the spouse be free to wear whatever colors s/he liked?

   By Hannah on Wednesday, July 28, 2004 - 04:39 pm: Edit Post

There is a comprehensive "offical"(?) timeline somewhere in the message boards where one could easily calculate current age if one was interested. I can't seem to locate it right now, though.

   By Trys on Wednesday, July 28, 2004 - 05:20 pm: Edit Post


That's because it didn't work out (no activity) so I deleted it. It wasn't necessarily accurate as Janny had not reviewed it.


   By Janny Wurts on Wednesday, July 28, 2004 - 05:31 pm: Edit Post

Official timeline - very hard to "review".

Why - the "notes" for it are on scattered papers, and notebooks, spanning years. They are not "cross correlated." They tend to "cluster" around time periods, or events, or even, a person's life....

Example: the Twelve Swords of Isaer - their histories wax and wane, depending on what was going on at the time. Each sword has a story. Some emerge into prominence in the hands of a certain individual - then fall into background. To "correlate" them - one needs to look at a Lot of material - and recall all of the bearers and events, and look THEM up, individually. Then compile...and some of the notes are literally on restaurant napkins...backs of train schedules. Yup - whenever they "arrived" they got jotted. Even in class notes from college.

I did MUCHO work on this, as I was "correcting" the glossaries in the UK reissue books....swore I'd get some of it available for this site - but the art deadlines, page proofs, production deadlines, then a short story - all due - sidetracked me yet again.

It's a Massive Job.

And you have to realize - the notes for this ERA are all mixed into the others....yup - First, Second and Third Ages - are only a FRAGMENT sliver of Atheran history, in total.

Drakish histories extend back WAY further.

(They covered the Era of Destruction, which followed AFTER the Era of Creation - Paravian arrival marked the Opening of the Era of Redemption, of which there were Seven Ages...)

Complex mess of notes...

   By frank on Wednesday, July 28, 2004 - 09:29 pm: Edit Post

Janny, as many others have done, bundle the timelines and associated details up into a reference book so we can purchase it. I believe that we WOLAS fans would purchase it. I for one definitely would.

   By Blue on Wednesday, July 28, 2004 - 11:53 pm: Edit Post

Hear, hear, Frank!

I imagine that at this time, Janny is chasing after restaurant napkins, odd bits of note paper, the backs of old envelopes and the like, and even non-paper things that were pressed into service whenever an idea struck her.

Whenever someone asks me why MY place is such a mess, I reply, "It's not a mess, it is the idea for a bestseller that I just need to round up!"

   By Janny Wurts on Thursday, July 29, 2004 - 09:50 am: Edit Post

frank -

Story make sense of these files (paper ones) would take a staggering bite of time.

Methinks completion of the story must come first, though writing that short story (For the Fawcett anthology) will give you a little view sidewards. (and back and you'll see, futureward, too).

Blue - spouses of Caithdeinen wear whatever pleases them, but not the black of the office, which denotes both the bearer of the title and the oath. There is a hard lot of symbolism to the black they wear - and to the office - you've seen only part. More coming....very soon.

   By Hannah on Thursday, July 29, 2004 - 11:29 pm: Edit Post

Drakish histories extend back WAY further.

(They covered the Era of Destruction, which followed AFTER the Era of Creation - Paravian arrival marked the Opening of the Era of Redemption, of which there were Seven Ages...)

Wow. ::blink, recoil from brain upheaval:: Too... late... at night... must not... shatter paradigm... ARGH!

   By Neil on Friday, July 30, 2004 - 02:13 am: Edit Post

Yes. The "eras" were news to me too: yet another layer :-)

   By Janny Wurts on Friday, July 30, 2004 - 11:30 am: Edit Post

There are more...eras, that is....

   By Phil on Friday, July 30, 2004 - 06:24 pm: Edit Post

Is it the seventh age of the Era of Redemption that the seers are looking back on the third age (as mentioned in the prologue to CoTM)?

If it is does this mean that the relevations that they discover will end both their age and their era?

   By max on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 06:39 am: Edit Post

I am rereading in anticipation of 'Traitor's Knot', and a question occured that I hadn't thought of before. If the curse ruined Lysaer for high king, why did it not ruin Arithon. They are subject to the same curse. But yet the F7 never decided that Arithon couldn't be king and this is very confusing to me. Help!! [grinning at ya] I am ASKING??!!!

   By Konran on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 06:20 pm: Edit Post

I think the issue with Lysaer is not the curse, it is the fact that he is WILFULLY breaking the Compact, which all the kings are sworn to uphold, and therefore the F7 aren't too happy with the idea that someone like that should take the throne. The curse in and of itself is a bad recommendation for king, but I believe it's the fact that he is breaking rules (slavery, the whole "look, I'm a god" thing) that disqualifies him for kingship, rather than the fact that he is cursed. (reread the scene in FP where the F7 cast him out... I think that pretty much explains it). If I'm totally off-track, sorry, feel free to smack me or whatever ^^;;

   By PurplePenny on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 06:54 pm: Edit Post

But the F7 decided that Lysaer was not to be King *before* he started breaking rules. They told Maenelle in CotM. IIRC they cast strands and saw that Mistwraith was going to set the two against each other and no matter how the strands ran the outcome was always bad for Lysaer (I think that there was one other possible outcome that was even worse).

   By Konran on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 09:55 pm: Edit Post

Hmm. Looks like you're right. I haven't read Curse for a bit. p. 455, pb:

"The curse that sets Lysaer against Arithon had sullied the s'Ilessid gift in any case." - Asandir

"There's always the next generation." - Sethvir

So from that conversation (right after they removed the wraith itself from Lysaer) it looks like Lysaer's gift of justice itself got tampered with (as we know, that's how the wraith got inside), and that therefore disqualifies him from kingship? Whereas to get to Arithon the curse didn't latch onto him through his royal gift and left it alone? ... yeah... it says Lysaer cast a "banespell" that entangled itself in Arithon's "aura". No mention of intrusion through the royal gift. *shakes head* I should really read back through and write the important stuff down...

"Lysaer's sense of justice and farsight will answer to logic, and therefore be reconciled to compromise. But since when can compassion ever be made to condone pain?" Morriel's probably got it right. Something to do with the twisting of Lysaer's justice gift, I'm betting then.

   By Blue on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 10:24 pm: Edit Post

"Look, I'm a god" thing

I don't know why, Konran, but for some reason, that particular sentence fragment has had me howling like a loon for about the last 10 minutes. Thanks for a good, if inadvertant, laugh! :-O

   By Konran on Tuesday, February 01, 2005 - 01:22 am: Edit Post

umm..... welcome? ^^;;

   By Rurack on Tuesday, February 01, 2005 - 09:31 am: Edit Post

Well ther are a couple things, and i hope I am remembering corectly, there are other s'Ilessid's through the world send gate. So Lysear, to a degree was thought as expendable. They were still planning to give Lysear kingship when the happy group lead by Kingmaker stopped by Althain. Then they cast strands. But The main reason the F7 want Arithon to be king is that he is the center of the "Back rose" no Arithon no Pavarians, in fact they die out, and the F7 is never restored to seven. Which brother would you pick. Oh wait a second the F7 can't pick they are BOUND BY DRAKE OATH to se to the survival of the pavarians.

And Konran if I remember corectly in Fugitive Prince a certain s'Brydion had to break Arithon's leg to keep him from going to Tysan to stop the firing of Riverton "because inocents would suffer and die" No the part I am remebering said that Dakar had a revalation while this was going on that the curse had warped his morality and especially his compasion.

At least I think that is how it went. I might be where did I put my copy of FP i know it is around here somewhere *grumbles to himself*

   By max on Wednesday, February 02, 2005 - 04:03 am: Edit Post

Rurack,.. thank you! that was the answer to my question. The F7 is bound by oath to paravian survival and so Arithon HAD to be sanctioned for king. It is often amazing how the smallest detail answers the question! thanks

   By Trys on Wednesday, February 02, 2005 - 05:19 am: Edit Post

Arithon HAD to be sanctioned for King so long as the F6 continue to believe that their chosen method of human governance is correct. Given that there are some indications that Davien disagrees with this belief there may have been another option for Arithon that would also help to ensure Paravian survival but I suspect until we know more about Davien's alternative we won't know what that choice was. However, I'd be willing to bet that Sethvir and Asandir know full well what Davien's alternative is.

Trys <-- playing devil's advocate.

   By Rurack on Wednesday, February 02, 2005 - 09:58 am: Edit Post

max np

and Trys play the devil's advocate all you want I agree with you. I have said before I think Davien is not the demon everyone seems to make him

   By HJ on Sunday, February 06, 2005 - 12:47 pm: Edit Post

Another quick question for Janny,

I was just wondering, with the earlier talk in this thread about all the ages of Athera's history, if - a few years down the line when WoLaS is finally completed - you may ever consider revisiting earlier periods and writing any 'prequel' novels about what has come before on Athera?

Many thanks

x HJ

   By Janny Wurts on Saturday, February 12, 2005 - 08:50 pm: Edit Post

HJ - this is a possibility - already visited in a short story anthology - there's a backhistory fragment in Masters of Fantasy out from Baen Books, edited by Bill Fawcett.

   By skeoke on Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 11:55 am: Edit Post

Is that the peice on the caithdein's daughter?
(Sorry, I have no references to hand - and my brain seems to be temporarily fogged out.)

Any chance we will ever see a discussion between 1/F7 and a drake in the early years?

   By Janny Wurts on Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 03:48 pm: Edit Post

Granddaughter. On F7/drake/early years - always a chance. Verrain's early history is another...

   By max on Monday, February 21, 2005 - 09:26 am: Edit Post

May I ask, Janny, when Arithon and Lysaer were attacked by the Mistwraith at Ithamon, I percieved that Lysaer had poured too much of his life force into defending and that is why he lost conciousness. Why did Arithon also lose conciousness? Physiologically speaking, was the Mistwraith killing them and how was it doing this? [If you want you can say "it was magic, all right!?"]

   By Dorothy on Monday, February 21, 2005 - 06:17 pm: Edit Post

Please please please a story of Verrain's early history! I can't really explain why here as it would constitute a spoiler (possibly),but he is such a wonderful character.And I've got a feeling I know who he was trained by.I hope that doesn't sound presumptuous of me, Janny. :-)


   By Hannah on Monday, February 21, 2005 - 09:41 pm: Edit Post

Dorothy, I think it's been said in the books/glossary that he was trained by Luhaine.

   By Janny Wurts on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 09:11 pm: Edit Post

max - you asked.

Arithon had wardings up - and the attack by the Mistwraith cut through - for that short period before Asandir showed up, it was 'inside' his defenses - he was fighting for his life, on an energetic level - the wraiths can feed on life force. When they do, they get stronger.

Diffused in the fog, over all of Athera, the effect was also diffused (there were not enough wraiths to choke a whole planet, Traithe cut off South Gate before enough got through - Athera's infestation was never as deep as Marak's). As the fog was reduced, the wraiths were concentrated into the area over Ithamon. You will recall, that in this attack, the wraiths "tipped their hand" - displayed traits not seen by the other members of the Fellowship.

There is a greater thread at work here - I can't tell you any more at this stage of the story's development - you'll have to read and see.

   By Dorothy on Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 05:53 pm: Edit Post

Oh dear-thanks for that info' Hannah. Suffice it to say I was miles off in my hunches! :-) I wonder if I'm miles off in where this story is going (lol).Well at least Verrain hasn't picked up the didactic mannerisms of his teacher :-) He seems such a gentle soul, I thought Ciadis had had a hand in his tuition. Then again the marked contrast between Asandir and Dakar should have given me some indication.(grin).
Which gives rise to another rumination-how much have the 7 changed over the years? Did Asandir see a younger version of himself in Dakar? And should I post so late at night after 2 glasses of wine?


   By max on Monday, February 28, 2005 - 05:53 am: Edit Post

Janny, thank you so much for taking the time to answer. Actually that answer should have occured to me, but sometimes searching deep means missing what was in front the whole time.

   By Hannah on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 11:00 pm: Edit Post


I had a quick question that randomly popped into my brain this afternoon. Maybe (probably) you can answer it off the top of your head...

How old was Elaira when CotM began--or, more accurately, when Lysaer and Arithon arrived on Athera. Lysaer was 24, and Arithon was 22. (It always seems strange to think of Arithon as the younger brother, since he seems much more in the way of a wiser, protective older brother type.)

Thanks, in advance.

   By Janny Wurts on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 09:39 am: Edit Post

Hannah - You Asked.

Elaira was born in Third Age Year 5617.
The half brothers arrived on Athera in 5637 (autumn).She would be barely 20, given her birthdate was sooner than that arrival.
Her longevity binding occurred in 5644.

   By Hannah on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 01:36 pm: Edit Post